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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey

Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1458
Location: Denver

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject:

Yep, "identity" hits the nail right on the head and signifies by far Nonis's biggest blunder. However justified he was in ridding the team of guys like Bert, Jovo, Crow, and yes, even Ruutu, he left the team bereft of any personality whatsoever. Luongo must be plenty pissed because quite frankly, the Canucks have become the Florida Panthers West. Whatever the case, it looks like Nonis and AV will be given the chance to right the ship...Nonis's goal should be to find a way, ANY way, to inject some fire into this squad. Sadly, I think that'll have to be at the expense of Naslund. He has to make a big statement in free agency or trade, even if that acquisition blows up in his face. At this point he has very little to lose by gambling...

Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1393
Location: Ottawa, ON

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject:

It's amazing that reporters ask these same questions summer after summer, because the answers literally never change. When's the last time a player said, "Oh I'm definitely retiring, I've made my mind up!" on the last day of the season, or "I'm sure I'll sign somewhere else when they offer a lot of money" the day after?

Elliott Pap wrote:

Naslund delivered mixed messages in his post-game scrum Saturday, saying he could see himself re-signing with the Canucks or he could see himself hanging them up. On Sunday, as the players packed their bags for the summer, Naslund was even more vague.

"Like I said last night, I'm going to take my time, let the dust settle, try to put all the pieces together and make the best decision," he stated.

Asked if would retire, Naslund replied: "We'll see."

Asked if he could be happy playing another season in coach Alain Vigneault's system, he responded: "You know what? I'm going to stick with that answer. It's not fair to answer it any other way right now. Hopefully I'm going to have a better feel for everything in a little while."

Asked for a timeline, he claimed there wasn't one.

"I'm not going to make a decision this month," he said, finally giving reporters something.

And wow, this is interesting: apparently the Flames made a bid to have Linden come play for his hometown team last summer. I don't remember that getting out at the time.

Iain MacIntyre wrote:

The craziest thing about Trevor Linden's final season was not how it ended Saturday, but how it began last summer when it seemed the team that wanted him most was the Calgary Flames.

After the Vancouver Canucks put off Linden's contract for most of the summer, Calgary general manager Darryl Sutter called agent Don Meehan and asked if Linden would consider signing with the Flames.

There was a problem, of course. Mike Keenan coaches the Flames.

But Linden knew he had a problem in Vancouver, too, because Canuck coach Alain Vigneault was obviously reticent to bring back the most popular player in franchise history.

Linden re-signed here anyway, eyes wide open, and insisted Saturday he made the right choice.

For better or worse. That's marriage.

_________________

saskhab
Morally Bankrupt Scum

Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2515
Location: Saskatoon!

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject:

It's usually guys that are well past their prime that announce their retirement at season's end... Linden would've been a good example if he was playing for anyone but the city that worships him. I remember a few years back Joe Juneau announced his retirement on locker clearing day, and I remember Adam Oates announcing his retirement as soon as Edmonton got eliminated that final year. _________________ It's backwards time.

Tuzer
No longer Croozing

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 687

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject:

Cannots Luvah wrote:

I want to trade the Sedins.

.

I would agree with you but where are you going to find 155-160 points for 7 million,The one good thing about the Sedins is their salaries,If you had to go into the freeagent market to replace those points it'll cost ya between 12 and 14 million dollars,I think we could resign them for probably 9 million combined,Remember these guys get pretty much the same numbers as Hossa or Demitra.I would prefer keeping them as a strong second line at least until the end of their current contracts.Lets see what Nonis can do in the offseason before pulling that plug Cool

the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: I'm here, aren't I?

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject:

I can totally see Naslund being back in Sweden on October 7, then exercising his Niedermeyer / Selanne option around Christmas... That would give him plenty of time to unwind and re-charge his batteries, as well as give these fans time to forget their current angst and welcome him back with open arms. That would also pave the way for someone else to be named Captain (I'm guessing Mitchell), since leadership has been a big question mark for some years now. _________________ ... Because the old one, is well, old.

the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: I'm here, aren't I?

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject:

Tuzer wrote:

Cannots Luvah wrote:

I want to trade the Sedins.

.

I read in the Province that only four other duos have outscored the Sedins this season. And chances are, that DN will have a long hard look at giving them a contract extension earlier rather than later so that $7M figure will be corrected (hopefully not too much more than $9M for the both of them...)

The Province wrote:

Top-line duo Team Combined points 2007-08 cap hit 2008-09 cap hit

Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg Detroit 189 $9.35 million $9.35 million

Jarome Iginla and Daymond Langkow Calgary 163 $9.44m $12m (unofficial)

Mike Ribeiro and Brenden Morrow Dallas 155 $6.9m $9.1m

Daniel and Henrik Sedin Vancouver 151 $7.15m $7.15m

Joe Thornton and Jonathan Cheechoo San Jose 135 $9.66m $9.66 m

Marian Gaborik and Pavol Demitra Minnesota 135 $10.83m ? (Gaborik's is $6.33m, Demitra is UFA)

_________________
... Because the old one, is well, old.

Tuzer
No longer Croozing

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 687

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject:

The other thing about the Sedins that I like is they're extremely durable,They have hardly ever missed games due to injury.

Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject:

Rick Ball insinuates Im an idiot and Pratt called me a pinhead.. not me personally , he was blasting all the "pinheads" calling to trade the Sedins! lol Simply put they are worth alot and I dont want to commit to them long term for big money ( and they will get 6M each w/NTC obviously)and make them the focal point/identity of the team. So the window to move them is now or never. Those are my general reasons. Obviously there's many including Nonis , who still think they can lead this team deep into the playoffs. I dont agree. lol , Pratt and Taylor now are going after me and the pinhead nation! lol (its their poll question now , woudl you trade the Sedins)..Pratt comments to the poll , if you vote yes ,I assume you have the basic intelligence to operate a computer so think about it before you vote lol.. what they dont comment on is we're not saying lets trade the Sedins for nothing.. they assume lets get rid of them entirely. I cant speak for all pinheads , Im sure there are legit pinheads who want Malkin and Crosby for the Sedins or other pinheads who want Tucker/McCabe for the Sedins but I dont associate with those pinheads. Pratt and I agree on this , they are worth alot. We disagree that the 1040 guys think they are the goto guys still. Last edited by Cannots Luvah on Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject:

NOnis has his port -mortem today , I missed it but here's TSN's recap http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=233752&hubname=nhl

razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1289
Location: Burnaby, B.C.

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject:

Nonis says they'll contend next year. Time to fire him if he thinks he has the prospect depth to ice a competitive team next year. Maybe he plans to sign a ton of free agents, but if so, goodbye team chemistry. Not that chemistry was a plus at the end, I suppose, but still...

razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1289
Location: Burnaby, B.C.

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject:

Tuzer wrote:

Cannots Luvah wrote:

I want to trade the Sedins.

.

I would agree with you but where are you going to find 155-160 points for 7 million

Crosby

Tuzer
No longer Croozing

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 687

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:29 am Post subject:

razzmatazz wrote:

Tuzer wrote:

Cannots Luvah wrote:

I want to trade the Sedins.

.

I would agree with you but where are you going to find 155-160 points for 7 million

Crosby

Nope,Yer uhh wrong there bucko.

US679 Part Deux
Morally Bankrupt Scum

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 416
Location: Milton, Ontario

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:32 am Post subject:

razzmatazz wrote:

Tuzer wrote:

Cannots Luvah wrote:

I want to trade the Sedins.

.

I would agree with you but where are you going to find 155-160 points for 7 million

Crosby

Brule
_________________

Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1393
Location: Ottawa, ON

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:33 am Post subject:

Combined points stats are kind of useless, because all that matters is how many goals a line provides, not whether they assist on each other's goals or get "penalized" for letting the third linemate or a defenseman into the scoring.

Nevertheless, it's interesting fodder.

tCL wrote:

I can totally see Naslund being back in Sweden on October 7, then exercising his Niedermeyer / Selanne option around Christmas... That would give him plenty of time to unwind and re-charge his batteries, as well as give these fans time to forget their current angst and welcome him back with open arms. That would also pave the way for someone else to be named Captain (I'm guessing Mitchell), since leadership has been a big question mark for some years now.

I like this plan very much. Like, seriously like.
_________________

the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: I'm here, aren't I?

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:46 am Post subject:

Jyrki21 wrote:

tCL wrote:

I like this plan very much. Like, seriously like.

It's not terribly original, but the precedent has been set. And IMO this situation calls for precisely this scenario. Vancouver fans, like so many others, will soon forget and forgive - this is after all, probably the second most appreciated Canuck after Trevor Linden, so I'd say go for it for all parties.

Nucks get a chance to keep half his salary (for whatever he re-signs for) off the books, and it gives them a chance to start 'with a clean slate' (or almost); it gives Nonis a chance to sign some really big-ticket help and change the team dynamics as he sees fit; it gives AV a chance to pass on the Captain mantle without embarrassing anyone; Naslund can have a couple of months to see how this team (as well as others) shapes up, and if he returns, he'll be held in high regard (as Forsberg was) throughout the league, and that drives up his price; if Naslund signs with Vancouver, he'll be a hero simply by signing on the bottomline.
_________________
... Because the old one, is well, old.

Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:58 am Post subject:

razzmatazz wrote:

Nonis says they'll contend next year. Time to fire him if he thinks he has the prospect depth to ice a competitive team next year. Maybe he plans to sign a ton of free agents, but if so, goodbye team chemistry. Not that chemistry was a plus at the end, I suppose, but still...

that was Nonis getting to use his Brian Burke 15 yr apprenticeship. That was Nonis trying to do a sales job and rally the troops. He says this team is close to winning a Cup then says there's many changes coming this summer.

Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey

Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1458
Location: Denver

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject:

So what are the top offseason needs? I said before the team shouldn't drop another dime on the blueline, but really, I think you guys could use another Jeff Brown (and no, not to put Luongo's marriage in jeopardy), a guy who, if I remember correctly, didn't have a lot of flash to his game but could QB the power play well. The pieces are there for a tremendous power play with guys like Salo on the point and the twins setting the table, but that does you no good if the guy starting with the puck in the defensive zone can't move it up ice with authority. BXA and Bourdon may yet blossom into those kinds of guys, but they're still pretty green. Don't know who's on the open market who might fill that role...Wade Redden perhaps if he were to take a substantial paycut, or Patrice Brisebois if Nonis were to reach deep into the bargain bin. Apart from that, obviously Nonis will likely be looking for a top scoring winger in some form, and maybe a 2nd line center if Morrison bolts.

the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: I'm here, aren't I?

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject:

The priority is to acquire a right-shooting RW with decent hands, Stan Smyl-esque grit, and the kind of size that Luvah likes - I think they'll definitely kick the tires on Michael Ryder. They'll need to get at least two to give them another option with the Sedins. Then they need to re-build their fourth line... Shannon and Rypien will probably be resigned; I'm guessing that BMo will, too. Sedin / Sedin / Player to be named later Burrows / Kesler / Heavy MayRay / Player to be named later (possibly BMo) / Pyatt Cowan / Player to be named later / Player to be named later On d, I could see them dangle one of BXA or Krajicek (RFA) and for the right price, Bourdon. Edler is untouchable; while Mitchell, Ohlund and Salo have NTCs. I would have no problem bringing back Miller in the #7 spot but surely DN can do better than Weaver in the #9 spot. And yes, we do need that damned many defencemen... Edler / Mitchell Ohlund / Salo BXA / Krajicek Bourdon There's some talk about Martin possibly wanting to wheel and deal OJ, but he'd want the Sedins, and I can't see DN going for that. In goal, the only spot that is up for grabs is the one on the bench. Sanford did okay this season, but I think with Schneider currently lighting it up in the AHL, I'm guessing that they'll give Drew McIntyre a chance to play the 10 or 15 games that Luongo doesn't want, while they give Schneider a solid chance to be the #1 with the Moose next season. _________________ ... Because the old one, is well, old.

Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject:

well , Im not keen on actual size , its the style Im focusing on which is related to team identity. Thats my top priority change , changing the team identity from a soft cycling team back into ol western Canucks hockey.

Hockey News came out with their 2008 GM rankings
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/14786-The-Hockey-News-GM-rankings.html

Quote:

16. David Nonis, Vancouver

Through his entire tenure with the Canucks, Nonis has been unable to address the team’s most glaring weakness – secondary scoring beyond the Sedin twins and Markus Naslund – and it may cost the club a playoff spot this season. But Nonis has had his brilliant moments, too. His acquisition of Roberto Luongo for Todd Bertuzzi will go down as one of the greatest ripoffs of all-time and his defense corps is solid (too bad about Mattias Ohlund’s late-season knee surgery, but you can’t blame the GM for that). Not getting Brad Richards at the deadline was bad enough, but not getting him because Nonis was unwilling to part with Ryan Kesler and Alex Edler borders on inexcusable.

CAREER 125-83-25 (.590)
CUPS 0
PLAYOFFS 1-1 series record

I disagree with Ken Campbell , I say its excusable and not saying that in hindsight.

the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: I'm here, aren't I?

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject:

Cannots Luvah wrote:

Quote:

I disagree with Ken Campbell , I say its excusable and not saying that in hindsight.

I agree - Richards is more of a playmaker anyway - the team needs guys who can put the puck in the net. And Dallas struggled mightily this last month after giving away the guys they did. Besides, Tampa wanted something that Vancouver didn't have - someone they could call a #1 goalie... If AV had given up Edler, Kesler and Schneider for Richards, that would have been inexcusable.
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