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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1393
Location: Ottawa, ON
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 Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| freakydave wrote: |
| How can there be a credibility issue when the replacement hasn't been named? |
Instability -- not a good thing.™
| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
| He must have referenced the term "Leadership" 20 times and he would answer questions irrelevant to leadership with leadership! lol Im not even joking. |
Sort of like the fans... it's never that they're not good enough or the other team simply outplayed them, it's always "heart" and "courage" and "leadership" and other invented sports terms that fans don't actually know anything about.
| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
| Bottomline is I am very worried I will never see a Stanley Cup in Vancouver in my lifetime. |
You can say that again... this is my point about the Canucks' rebuilding cycles as against the rest of the leagues. Vancouver fans always want the team to be "blown up", then a bunch of rebuilding, then blow it up again, like the team has a natural expiration date that the Detroits and New Jerseys of the world don't. Every snag means that "something's wrong in the room" or "[star player] is unhappy." Endless scorched earth.
You don't see this with most other teams, including those with similarly hyperactive fans.
But at the same time, they rarely get bad enough to get a star draft pick, because they do, ironically, have some good pieces in place. So no boom and bust cycles like the Pittsburghs, Anaheims and Tampas have used.
Philadelphia showed you can have a quick turnaround time. Yet they won't -- rumors of Luongo "being unhappy" will become self-fulfilling, and the spiral will begin. Sigh.
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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he was asked to define leadership because he kept saying it .. and he said a leader has to have vision and ability to execute.( he actually said a little more to it but thats the bulk of it)
Somehwere in there he talked about what he didnt like about his team. He said he didnt think the Canucks were going sustain a competitive level short term or long term. I think his "ability to execute" was a shot at Nonis' in ability to make a deal. Though he emphasized missing the playoffs was key in his decision. |
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the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: I'm here, aren't I?
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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This comes under the general heading of "Be careful what you ask for." Surprisingly, the Vancouver media seems to be generally against it, although I'm sure not being as much a part of that decision process had a lot to do with it.
Buh-bye, Roberto, it was nice seeing you play here... I suspect he'll end up in Detroit.
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... Because the old one, is well, old.
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Jyrki21 wrote: |
You can say that again... this is my point about the Canucks' rebuilding cycles as against the rest of the leagues. Vancouver fans always want the team to be "blown up", then a bunch of rebuilding, then blow it up again, like the team has a natural expiration date that the Detroits and New Jerseys of the world don't. Every snag means that "something's wrong in the room" or "[star player] is unhappy." Endless scorched earth.
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I can live with a rebuilding plan if it was Scotty Bowmen and Ken Holland doing it ... but this is a headless chicken I sense. Remember when your a kid and you get a new toy and you fiddle with all the parts and see what can move and what can break... its like Aquilini is testingout the kung fu grips on his toy and fooling around. |
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the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: I'm here, aren't I?
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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On the bright side, if he hasn't named anyone, then it may be that whoever he wants is still under contract for someone else (Lord forbid, BB, Holland/Bowman - yeah, right)... Which is a good thing in one way, since if means the usual suspects and other unemployed types (JFJ, Doug Armstrong, Pat Quinn, etc.) aren't on his list... And if he needs to get permission to speak to someone's owner first, at least he's given Tambellini plenty of time to close out current business (the July draft, Brunnstrom, and possible contracts for their UFAs) before a new GM is named.
Oh who am I kidding... This is a clusterfuck, timing-wise and unless there is a supreme candidate who might not be available later, not having someone already standing by to be named is a huge mistake.
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... Because the old one, is well, old.
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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lets see if i can remember any positives
Aquilini says he would push the cap if need be.
if you're worried about a long term rebuild.. he said cleary that he wants to be competing for the Cup next season. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 2501
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Jyrki21 wrote: |
Philadelphia showed you can have a quick turnaround time. Yet they won't -- rumors of Luongo "being unhappy" will become self-fulfilling, and the spiral will begin. Sigh. |
That's the worst example that Toronto fans like to use about what will happen if a team rebuilds. The problem is that Philly had tons of cap room to get Briere, Hartnell, Timonen, etc. and a very good stable of prospects, with some studs like Richards and Carter, others like Lupul, Umberger and Coburn. Not to mention Gagne. They had unloadable guys to swing deals at the deadline. Along with the entire team underachieving the previous season, it makes Philly the worst possible example for fans to cite as an example of the turnaround time required for a rebuild and sets unrealistic expectations.
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Bring back the old OTP!
Last edited by Bosc Ulrich II on Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: I'm here, aren't I?
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
lets see if i can remember any positives
Aquilini says he would push the cap if need be.
if you're worried about a long term rebuild.. he said cleary that he wants to be competing for the Cup next season. |
Here are some more things that mattola from cc reported:
| mattola wrote: |
feel free to add
- wasn't one specific thing (for firing e.g. injuries etc..) they looked at long term stability and competitiveness of team
- had permission to spend to cap. dave did not spend to cap. ownership will always make resources available to GM (zimmerman is a twit)
- no gm in place. process begins now. timeline is ASAP but need to get right person (this doesnt make me feel fuzzy)
- did I mention zimmerman is a twit
- decision made last week with owners meeting
- we have best goalie in world, great foundation to build on
- fired 2 GMS in 5 years only team in our division to do this.
- we will find leadership that will move us in right direction
- thinks fans deserved better (missing 2 of 3 years not acceptable
- owner not unhappy with trade deadline no action was ok with Dave non moves
- aquilini is NOT a good interview
- zimmerman is a twit
- dave and aquilini got along. said he was a very good guy 4 times
- dance dance dance
- leadership is vision, proper support group around you (Bye AV bye TAMBY), ability to execute and to get the job done
- brunstrom deal is on hold? answer: zimmerman says.. Tamby is managing this situation. we still hope that he comes to vancouver. tamby is interim manager (very interim)
- not about playoffs totally. its about fan experience and we couldnt deliver a playoff run or exciting hockey
- shall I say anything about zimmerman again
- new GM will have decision on AV and tamby(Bye AV bye TAMBY)
- Ownership, Zimmerman, possible advisors will choose GM (experience, ability and execute on the plan)
- style of play he likes is winning. doesnt matter how it gets done
- we will not be in GMS way. will let them work and do what they need to do
- no comment on burke or active GM to hire
- after 3 years of reviewing daves plan they didnt see the move forward they wanted
- they went along with all Daves ideas
- have spoken to a few people
- lots of same questions from reporters. they are not listening to answers |
This is another thing to be concerned about:
- not about playoffs totally. its about fan experience and we couldnt deliver a playoff run or exciting hockey
And yet:
- style of play he likes is winning. doesnt matter how it gets done
DN's team won 39 games this year; totalled 105 points the year before. 
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... Because the old one, is well, old.
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| well , Ill be fair to Aquilini , he wouldnt be doing a good job in his GM search if he didnt wait for the playoffs to end to talk to the guys he's interested in. It was premature for me to say he has no plan but if you heard the presser , you would assume the same thing. Im still shaking my head at some of those responses. |
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1458
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Spend to the cap NOW!? In a FA market as crappy as this one!? Unreal. The guy's clueless.
Oh, and let's not even go into the fact that Vancouver for whatever reason has had a very tough time attracting prospective free agents. Let's see 'em woo the big names NOW...
I foresee a couple very expensive swipes at another team's RFA players that'll make Lowe look like a cheapskate. Get ready...the Canucks are gonna be like a chicken without its head this offseason.
I like Mirtle too, but like the rest of you I totally disagree with him on this. Indicting him for failing to get Scott Niedermayer is almost insulting. He is as familiar with the story as we are, Nieds wanted three things, money, the chance to play closer to his hometown in Vancouver (not necessarily IN Vancouver, just closer) and the chance to play with his brother. Burke came up to him and said they were the one and only team able to cross everything off his list. How the hell were the Canucks, or anyone else for that matter, going to get him!? |
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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1393
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Av-merican wrote: |
| Oh, and let's not even go into the fact that Vancouver for whatever reason has had a very tough time attracting prospective free agents. Let's see 'em woo the big names NOW... |
That's not really accurate... not wanting to sign big names doesn't mean those players wouldn't be willing. The Canucks have never been big on free agents to begin with, and since the cap came in they haven't had the space even if they wanted to. The last guy who actually didn't want to play in Vancouver prospectively was Craig Janney, who no one really understood. No one else has ever said anything which would imply that location was a problem (unless you count Andrew Cassels' desire to be near his children, but the Canucks weren't trying to re-sign him anyway).
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saskhab
Morally Bankrupt Scum
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2515
Location: Saskatoon!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Don't forget the Cheeseburger!
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It's backwards time. |
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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1393
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| saskhab wrote: |
| Don't forget the Cheeseburger! |
Heh, wish I could, but that was a money thing. I accuse him of a lot, but the reality is that he would have signed if Burke had ponied up.
Plus, he wasn't a free agent.
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freakydave
Less freaky once you get to know him
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 156
Location: Rollin down the street
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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You guys sound like a bunch of women.DN was a mediocre GM his firing isn't the end of the world nor was it a bad move until the FNG screws up badly.
I watched the PC- What I got out of it was this
He did not convince the owners he knew what he was doing &
Nonis didn't have a sustainble plan to make the team competitive over the long haul.If Nonis was half as good as you guys like to pretend he'd still have his job.
Nonis did not have enough NHL expeirence when he got the job in first place.
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Mark my words Nonis is a mediocre GM-
I called for his head 07/08
fired apr 14th/08
AV your next |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| well, on a positive note. Ironically because Aquilini was somewhat clueless like not knowing what his budget was , shows that he's not a meddling owner. He said in his presser that NOnis had complete control and there's no evidence to believe different. What it comes down to is who's the next GM? |
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1458
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Jyrki21 wrote: |
| Av-merican wrote: |
| Oh, and let's not even go into the fact that Vancouver for whatever reason has had a very tough time attracting prospective free agents. Let's see 'em woo the big names NOW... |
That's not really accurate... not wanting to sign big names doesn't mean those players wouldn't be willing. The Canucks have never been big on free agents to begin with, and since the cap came in they haven't had the space even if they wanted to. The last guy who actually didn't want to play in Vancouver prospectively was Craig Janney, who no one really understood. No one else has ever said anything which would imply that location was a problem (unless you count Andrew Cassels' desire to be near his children, but the Canucks weren't trying to re-sign him anyway). |
I could swear you yourself have expressed frustration at Vancouver not ever being a choice of destination for prospective free agent stars. It's always somewhere else, be it Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, or Toronto.
Fat lotta good that's done the Leafs of course... |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1289
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Av-merican wrote: |
Spend to the cap NOW!? In a FA market as crappy as this one!? Unreal. The guy's clueless.
Oh, and let's not even go into the fact that Vancouver for whatever reason has had a very tough time attracting prospective free agents. Let's see 'em woo the big names NOW...
I foresee a couple very expensive swipes at another team's RFA players that'll make Lowe look like a cheapskate. Get ready...the Canucks are gonna be like a chicken without its head this offseason.
I like Mirtle too, but like the rest of you I totally disagree with him on this. Indicting him for failing to get Scott Niedermayer is almost insulting. He is as familiar with the story as we are, Nieds wanted three things, money, the chance to play closer to his hometown in Vancouver (not necessarily IN Vancouver, just closer) and the chance to play with his brother. Burke came up to him and said they were the one and only team able to cross everything off his list. How the hell were the Canucks, or anyone else for that matter, going to get him!? |
By trading for Rob Niedermayer  |
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1458
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| razzmatazz wrote: |
| By trading for Rob Niedermayer |
Yeah but they'd have to have Pavel Bure's brother first. |
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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1393
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Av-merican wrote: |
I could swear you yourself have expressed frustration at Vancouver not ever being a choice of destination for prospective free agent stars. It's always somewhere else, be it Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, or Toronto. |
I've definitely expressed frustration at players predictably going to the same 6 or so teams -- that's not a slight on Vancouver, though, any more than it is on everyone else who isn't one of those markets. (Plus I sincerely doubt Vancouver ever tries to sign one of the guys who do). Few if any players since Janney have actually expressed an unwillingness to come to Vancouver, though.
I also expressed frustration in the pre-cap period at the Canucks' unwillingness to sign virtually anyone at all, but that was their own philosophy.
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Oz
Kangaroos and Didgeridoos
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Mckenzie's latest
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=234390
Sources say former player agent Brian Lawton, who quit the agent business last year to focus on getting a job in hockey management, is said to be extremely well thought of by the Canucks' hierarchy. Whether Lawton, a former NHL player who was chosen No. 1 overall in the 1983 Entry Draft, is a leading candidate or just one of the candidates remains to be seen, but it's clearly a name that should not be ignored. |
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