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monsieur parafect
OTPoliceman
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 114
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 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bure trade - Thanks to Keenan and Messier driving Linden to the airport, Bure was the face of the Canucks. The two of them had been synonymous with success with the Canucks when up until their arrival the team had been horrible for most of their history. At the time, I felt the team had become faceless. I also felt (as I do from time to time) the franchise was cursed, just like the Atlanta Falcons and New Orleans Saints. Mogilny had become disenchanted with the team under Rennie and had been just mailing it in. Keenan eventually was fired but Messier and McCabe, a Keenan favorite who showed his lack of mobility on the Canucks defence were still around when I went to the next Canucks game. Discouraged was the best way to describe my feeling. It felt like a death pall was on the team. |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1656
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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The best part about that deal for me  is when they interviewed Burke about Gagner leaving the team - I think he was released or just not re-signed...
Burke tape shortly after Gagner leaves: "Gagner was throw in, big deal"
Pratt: "uh-huh. let's play the tape"
Burke tape shortly after Bure deal: "make no mistake, I insisted that Dave Gagner be a part of this trade"
golden... |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| that reminds me , Gino Odjick last year had this great interview and he shared his perspective of the whole Keenan-Linden incident in St,Louis. Youguys know Gino can accidently be too candid in a sincere way.. he said all of its true and during the whole incident he was about to knock out Keenan and Pavel had to restrain him. Gino went as far as saying Keenan can thank Pavel for saving his life. According to Gino , to buff out any rumour that Pavel was on Messier/Keenan's side in the war vs Linden's crew.. Pavel was 100% behind Linden and that was the moment Pavel told Gino ( this according to Gino ) he couldnt take it anymore he is outta there . |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| razzmatazz wrote: |
The best part about that deal for me is when they interviewed Burke about Gagner leaving the team - I think he was released or just not re-signed...
Burke tape shortly after Gagner leaves: "Gagner was throw in, big deal"
Pratt: "uh-huh. let's play the tape"
Burke tape shortly after Bure deal: "make no mistake, I insisted that Dave Gagner be a part of this trade"
golden... |
in terms on entertainment , that was Brian Burke in his prime. He had yet to hook up with Jennifer Mathers so he was single , moody and had all the time to pick fights. He made his other infamous statement " a quarter , it will only take a quarter to move this team out of here" ... up until late the following season ( 99-00) I actually dindt like BUrke too much.
Blockbuster moves all year long ...from Pavel , firing Keenan , Sedin trade , Potvin trade , .. the actual year of 99 was crazy. |
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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1856
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
| Blockbuster moves all year long ...from Pavel , firing Keenan , Sedin trade , Potvin trade , .. the actual year of 99 was crazy. |
Don't forget the sheepish "Sorry Peter Zezel, we just assumed you wanted to go to a contender!" trade.
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1656
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| What annoyed me about that is that while those teams were pathetic excuses for professional sports franchises, the Canadians, though on their way to Sacramento, were loaded up with A's prospects. The last game was epic - booing the national anthem, a Jerry O'Connell sighting 5 seats down , Zito fanning the side in the deciding game's first inning - his first inning of AAA ball, career minor leaguer Jeff Ball hitting a solo shot in our half of the first with a broken wrist, the final out, and Mark Mulder's address to the crowd: "I dunno about you, but we're all going to the Roxy!"... That was a magical night and all Vancouver cared about was a stupid Moose and a big, dumb white center from Oklahoma... |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| That was another kick in the nards to the city at the time. Losing the AAA team status. I had stopped following baseball by that time but my favourite Canadians team was the Angels crop of talent with Salmon , JT SNow , ... |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1656
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah that crop was amazing too. Troy Percival, Tim Salmon, Garrett Anderson, Troy Glaus, J.T. Snow, Jim Edmonds... they went up against a great Albuquerque team featuring Antonio Osuna, Billy Ashley, former C Ron Coomer, Reggie Williams, Jose Offerman... we lost but what a clash of the titans...
That reminds me, we're sitting 2nd row Dukes side by their on deck circle. Offerman is on deck. Two guys behind us just start riding him about how he can't hit anymore, back in the minors, majors don't want him... He actually starts jabbering back at them in spanish...
Dude steps up and goes yard. Rounds the bases, crosses the plate, looks at them and barks some more. The fan's response was legendary... "grab a glove"...
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim Edmunds!!!!! I was trying to think a couple other guys that stood out , I got mind blocked after JT Snow and Tim Salmon... GArrett Anderson too , ah man I dont remember Troy Glaus , that was a great crop. That was early 90s , I was in high school , I would skip out to catch a nooner at the Nat for $5... bench seating along the baselines. Great value..esp if you're a diehard baseball fan , get to see bluechip talent for a couple bucks up close. Only a couple years before Sammy Sosa was playing for the C's. |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1656
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, 170 pound stick man Sammy Sosa... not that he ever juiced it up...
My old man and me had an ongoing argument about which former outfielder was the better player. His fave has always been Sammy. Me, I was partial to Lance Johnson, a great speedster of a CF for the White Sox mainly, which is where I get my affinity for them from. Dude hit .333 for the Cubs one year with 9 homers, 59 ribbies, 200 plus hits, a ton of doubles, and 21 triples - that's just sick! Plus he stole like 50 bases. The guy was just flat out fast, and even hit a salami once off of Jim Converse of the Mariners - I was watching and called the shot too, haha... He and Luis Polonia were always vying for the SB lead in the PCL when both were coming up, he with the Sox and Polonia with the "California" Angels, and their faggoty ass red shoes...
Oh the stories... including an Oakland reliever down on a conditioning stint, kicking the remote controlled truck being raced away when it went over the mound on its way from first to third. Crowd booed every pitch, got to the guy, and the C's lit him up for 5 runs. Never heard a crowd boo so incessently, it was 10 minutes straight BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... Nat Bailey crowds, a true legacy of this city, it's just not the same with the short season kids playing now... |
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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1856
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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I used to be a semi-regular at C's games too... you gotta love how the ticket prices went up when the team made the gargantuan fall from AAA to single-A.
The games I saw straddled the White Sox-Angel days, mostly in the latter, I guess. I know Nat Bailey has never been a hitter's park, but I was always surprised at the numbers some of these guys put up when they got to the majors, because they never looked that good at Nat Bailey. Jim Edmonds was a guy I always liked, had no idea he was about to go on to be a major league star... though if I recall Darin Erstad tore it up while in Vancouver, didn't he?
By the way, I was always bitter about the loss of triple-A in Vancouver, but now that I've seen the parks in places like Buffalo and Syracuse (just from the outside, but they look borderline major league quality), I can see why the Nat wasn't cutting it.
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah , I remember SPortspage covering the new home of the AAA Cs and their stadium was a mini Cambden Yards if I recall. It was nice. At least the C's won the PCL in their last season.
The most infamous moment at the Nat was that player who ran through the wall in the 80s. Wasnt a Cs player I dont think.
Babe Ruth played at the Nat long long ago apparently.
Hopefully the city can get off their asses and get this new soccer stadium going downtown ( its a couple years away from beginning at best). Speaking of soccer , Beckham is in town tonight in the friendly vs the Whitecaps. |
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the S Fox
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| monsieur parafect wrote: |
| I also felt (as I do from time to time) the franchise was cursed .. |
While I don't necessarily believe in conspiracy theories, this thought crossed my mind many years ago also (not just the year that Smyl hit the post that may have changed the landscape in Vancouver's hockey history).
I was of the firm belief that when the Nux entered the NHL they should have brought with them most of the players that were from the WHL which they evolved from. The last few years in the WHL that team was a mixture of vets, toughness & a few "younger" players that played as a team.
It seemed from the toss of the coin when the Nux lost out on the Perreault sweeps, that this new entry into the League would be plagued from the start.
Even tho' they were placed in the Eatern Div and finished one point ahead of Detroit in their first year, this franchise was destined to be isolated (not just by geography) for many years. |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="the S Fox"]
| monsieur parafect wrote: |
It seemed from the toss of the coin when the Nux lost out on the Perreault sweeps, that this new entry into the League would be plagued from the start.
Even tho' they were placed in the Eatern Div and finished one point ahead of Detroit in their first year, this franchise was destined to be isolated (not just by geography) for many years. |
I agree with you 100000% , I've posted this topic before how i call it the Curse of Perreault. My uncle Bob ( and I really do have a uncle Bob) to this day still moans about how close Vancouver was to getting Gilbert Perreault.
It was a spin of a wheel to decide who gets 1st overall. Vancouver had even and Buffalo had odd numbers.. the wheels lands on "II" , Clarence Campbell read it as roman numeral " two!" ..for a few seconds Vancouver thought they had it ,then Campbell corrected himself and called out eleven. I dont know how to put it into words but that whole lottery wheel tease fits so perfect for the Canucks history.
While Gilbert Perreault went on to lead Buffalo to many many 40+ win seasons and a Hall of Fame career , Vancouver Canucks 37 years later still has no hall of famers. ( in the HOF because of their play in Vancouver so save the " how about Cam Neely" reference) Some might say Vancouver's fortunes began to turn to respectability when Pat Quinn finally took over in Vancouver (1987), well that was the exact same time Gilbert retired *cue Hard Copy music* ... and in 1987 guess who screwed Vancouver out of 1st overall ...AGAIN!!! *now cue Twilight Zone music*
well , let me add for 87, there was a few teams who frighteningly finished worse than Vancouver that year. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3222
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
and in 1987 guess who screwed Vancouver out of 1st overall ...AGAIN!!! *now cue Twilight Zone music*
well , let me add for 87, there was a few teams who frighteningly finished worse than Vancouver that year. |
Vancouver would have drafted 3rd...Hadn't they already traded that pick in the Neely deal?
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I just realized ,maybe it was a good thing BUffalo took 1st overall in 87 caz that was the year Van traded their 1st rd pick to Boston for the before mentioned Cam Neely!
and begins the 2nd curse! |
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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1856
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
| It was a spin of a wheel to decide who gets 1st overall. Vancouver had even and Buffalo had odd numbers.. the wheels lands on "II" , Clarence Campbell read it as roman numeral " two!" ..for a few seconds Vancouver thought they had it ,then Campbell corrected himself and called out eleven. I dont know how to put it into words but that whole lottery wheel tease fits so perfect for the Canucks history. |
This isn't quite right... Campbell didn't think there was one Roman numeral on an entire wheel of Arabic numerals. He actually mistook the '11' for a '1' -- the Canucks and Sabres had divided up the wheel numbers evenly.
As per Canuckscentral:
| Quote: |
| The Canucks would have numbers one through six, while seven through 12 belonged to the Sabres. With NHL President Clarence S. Campbell presiding, the wheel was spun and it was announced that the number one had come up. The Vancouver contingent erupted, but Buffalo GM Punch Imlach protested, claiming that it was number 11 (the digits were one on top of the other). Imlach was found to be correct, and the first choice belonged to the Sabres. It was a surprise to nobody when they selected Gilbert Perreault from the Montreal Jr. Canadiens. Perreault would wear the lucky number 11 throughout his 17-year career with the Sabres. |
You'd think they could have just flipped a coin rather than used a half/half wheel... or make it alternate Sabre/Canuck/Sabre/Canuck like Maggie the Macaque does for a little more drama.
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting , I didnt know it was 1-6..I always thought it was odd/even, . For a split sec , Hal Laycoe and crew thought they had Gilbert
the next year was pretty sucky too for Vancouver ,firstly how did Van not finish last overall in their innaugral season!?!.... the 71 draft goes Guy Lafluer , Marcel Dionne ...then Vancouver ends up with Joceyln Geuvremont! ...I wish I was alive to enjoy |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Then in the NBA , Vancouver actually wins the toss over Toronto and gets 6th overall pick..Big Country Reeves. Which you might say was the curse of the Grizzlies. |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1656
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
Yeah , I remember SPortspage covering the new home of the AAA Cs and their stadium was a mini Cambden Yards if I recall. It was nice. At least the C's won the PCL in their last season.
The most infamous moment at the Nat was that player who ran through the wall in the 80s. Wasnt a Cs player I dont think.
Babe Ruth played at the Nat long long ago apparently.
Hopefully the city can get off their asses and get this new soccer stadium going downtown ( its a couple years away from beginning at best). Speaking of soccer , Beckham is in town tonight in the friendly vs the Whitecaps. |
The C's also went on to come back from a 2-0 deficit to win the first ever AAA World Series 3-2, in front of about 200 fans in Vegas. Had that game been played in Vancouver, it would have been a fitting end to a great run...
Rodney MacRae was the guy that ran through the wall. He was a C, but it was on the road, I think... It's still on the "World's Top 50 craziest sporting moments" that that series of shows on that stupid FOXSPORTS or whatever channel is always showing. You know, the one with Dibs and three black guys in the chairs, and they get a question about hockey and no one knows who Wayne Gretzky is lol...
Babe Ruth did indeed play at Capilano stadium, across the street from where the Nat is now. My grandfather was lucky enough to attend... Ruth took a brolly out to first base, and apparently hit a foul ball that appeared to land somewhere in Marpole...
As for them moving, Art Savage wanted a team in his hometown. It's a common misconception that they left because the stadium wasn't sufficient. Wrong - the stadium had been inferior to other AAA ballparks for years in terms of modern amenities, but that didn't bother the PCL. The team drew fine, it was a beautifal park, and MLB teams kept putting their top farm teams there.
That said, to get a team BACK, we'll need a huge upgrade to the Nat, including luxury boxes, way more seating, huge sponsorships... in short, in a city so inexpicably obsessed with the Canucks and getting back the Grizzlies, it will never happen... |
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