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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1949
Location: Denver
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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1823
Location: Ottawa, ON
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 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Cannots Luvah's tearful press conference will follow shortly after.
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I guess Daddy and Mommy will have to retire, too. What a shame!
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No one can make you feel inferior without your permission. |
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1549
Location: MTL Police: stay out ma bizness
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Not a Hall of Famer. Not even close.
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John McCain is fit as a fiddle… Is 71 the new 30?” - Fox News' Rich Lowry
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1949
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| E.L. wrote: |
| Not a Hall of Famer. Not even close. |
But...but...Bobby Clarke said so!!!!!  |
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: Eckie - Post Play |
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It seems Eckie has gained weight in his time off. Maybe excersise makes his head spin.
Will Mommy let him marry now?
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Alabama Man
Now with 30% more rage!
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 630
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Wow Lindros has gotten fat!!!!!!!!! 
You beat me to it obviously, but he's on CBC right now & you can tell he spent his summer enjoying beer & BBQ.
ANd why the fuck not! THat guy's earned it!
BE FAT ERIC!!!!!!!
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My anger is a gift! |
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| THE GODFATHER OF LOVE wrote: |
Wow Lindros has gotten fat!!!!!!!!!
You beat me to it obviously, but he's on CBC right now & you can tell he spent his summer enjoying beer & BBQ.
ANd why the fuck not! THat guy's earned it!
BE FAT ERIC!!!!!!!
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Earned it??? I don't think so. He has spent more time out than he spent in the rink. Steve Yzerman may have earned it... Mark Messier may have earned it... Al MacKinnis may have earned it... but faggot Lindros? NO WAY.
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Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1215
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Lillith wrote: |
| Steve Yzerman may have earned it... Mark Messier may have earned it... Al MacKinnis may have earned it... |
and how many of those pursued their dream of being a Leaf?
Screw them all they didn't earn anything in Butch and I's eyes.
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It's not you Sundin, it's me...please just leave...and don't look back....please please do not look back. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3205
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Hounsy wrote: |
| Lillith wrote: |
| Steve Yzerman may have earned it... Mark Messier may have earned it... Al MacKinnis may have earned it... |
and how many of those pursued their dream of being a Leaf?
Screw them all they didn't earn anything in Butch and I's eyes. |
Yeah but you know deep down that they always wanted to be a Leaf. They always do.
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Bring back the old OTP!
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Who the hell cares whether Lindros or anyone 'persued' dreams of becoming a Leaf? The fact remains that he screwed the Nordiques and had "issues" with almost every team he was with.
Before you name me a bigger bitch than I am already I have always felt that Eric's successive concussions were horrible and robbed hockey of what could have been a brilliant player.
Concussions shake the brain in the cranium, ripping nerves that cannot be repaired. Concussions are cumulative. The best example of this is boxers.
Lindros is smart to quit while he can still think.
But I also feel that he and his parents were a pain in the ass for most teams. At least in the front office.
Oh, well. I do wish him well - I guess.
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3205
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Lillith wrote: |
Who the hell cares whether Lindros or anyone 'persued' dreams of becoming a Leaf? The fact remains that he screwed the Nordiques and had "issues" with almost every team he was with.
Before you name me a bigger bitch than I am already I have always felt that Eric's successive concussions were horrible and robbed hockey of what could have been a brilliant player.
Concussions shake the brain in the cranium, ripping nerves that cannot be repaired. Concussions are cumulative. The best example of this is boxers.
Lindros is smart to quit while he can still think.
But I also feel that he and his parents were a pain in the ass for most teams. At least in the front office.
Oh, well. I do wish him well - I guess. |
Lil, Lindros didn't screw the Nordiques. Part of the reason that they became a powerhouse and won 2 Cups was because of the trade that landed them Forsberg, a bunch of others players and cash for Lindros because he refused to play for them. The Red Wings also helped them too. Well, I guess you could say that he screw the Nords but helped the Avs 
Concussions did really rob hockey of what could have been a great career. That boy really needed to skate with his head down...
I hope you they're just having fun with this and not really serious about the Leafs thing...
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Bring back the old OTP!
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Bell Centre Ghost
Haunting the Bell Centre since 2005
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Guelph
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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I hate Lindros for being a self-centered prick - but then again, the HHOF isn't about that (what it IS about given the no-names in it is another story  )
So that said - if Lindros shouldn't be in it, should Forsberg?
http://www.tsn.ca/tsn_talent/columnists/dan_pollard/ |
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with both Bosc and Bell. The result of Lindros' refusal to play with the Nordiques did indeed help the Nords/Avs. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a very self-centered person. And his refusal, at first, was slap in the face of the Nordiques. I remember how humiliated/angry they were when this happened. Yes, they got a very good deal AFTER the refusal. But the refusal itself was astounding arrogance from a rookie.
Now on to concussions. Members here may think that I have an abiding hatred of Lindros. Not true. I have read quite a few 'background' pieces on Lindros. I wasn't as "up" in my knowledge on this guy as most of you are - so I searched for background when some of the 'issues' came up and his latest injuries happened.
What I learned from my searches (mostly Canadian) is that Lindros was exceptionally skilled in puck handling and "seeing" the ice. Comparisons to Gretzky were multitudinous. His strength and size were always mentioned. As well as the fact that he was a superb skater. High hopes, indeed.
And then....the concussions. Not the "issues". But concussions - many of them.
My question is WHY? In three sports there are frequent concussions: Boxing, Football and Hockey. In that order. Why is it that this most promising player in strength and skill suffered so many concussion?
I am not a doctor, but my sister is. I asked her about concussions. We discussed a certain hockey player. My sister told me that a minor first concussion can be worked through. In the case of an athlete, there might be subconscious repercussions in the fact that the athlete will (subconsciously) do things to avoid another injury - that very avoidance can throw the player off his game and learned skill in so much as to actually place him in danger of further injury.
Without the knowledge of the Almighty Power, I cannot possibly say whether this is the case. I do know that the San Francisco 49ers had, at one time, a Psychologist on board to address injury issues (i.e. getting injured players ready to play again). It has been a mighty long time since I lived in my home state, so this may no longer be the case.
So here is my take on Eric Lindros:
1) I do not know how severe his first concussion was
2) I do not know what, if any, psychological help he got
3) My opinion only - I surmise that he got NO psychological help-only a physical diagnosis
4) My opinion only - I surmise that Eric had repercussions from his FIRST concussion that affected him from that time on - and those were not treated.
5) Subconscious means that the person is NOT AWARE that something is affecting their life/profession
6) Because Eric, his parents and the NHL refused to acknowledge that the first concussion might lead to an inability to play 100% (as was expected) - everyone was 'mystified' as to why Lindros wasn't "at his best".
7) IMO - the psychological 'fear' (which was never addressed) resulted in his successive concussions.
And I believe this is tragic. I blame the NHL, I blame Lindros' parents. A person can overcome a concussion. An athlete must have therapy to overcome this and play again (where danger of another injury is possible).
My opinion is that Eric Lindros is a victim of an ignorant NHL and the greed of his parents.
This does not mean that I can't make fun of Eckie - I can make fun of anyone I choose. Eckie has tied himself to the apron strings of both parents. I just think that he should have known a long time ago that his parents have harmed him. But that is life.
Despite my jokes, My opinion is that Lindros is a very tragic figure.
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1949
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Lil, you're discounting the fact that Lindros, from the time he was a wee pup until his last game in the NHL, never learned a basic tenet of hockey you're taught the very moment you're handed a stick, puck, and skates--KEEP YOUR HEAD UP. Even when he suffered his final concussion as a Ranger he charged right in like he always does and walked right into yet another hit. Being a defenseman I can tell you, it's like Christmas comes early when a forward comes in not looking. Even the biggest oaf will fall like a sack of bricks if he's not prepared for the hit that's coming. The most classic of hits laid on Lindros has to be the one where Scott Stevens just flattens him to the ice. You can just feel the thud... 
There's also evidence that some people have a genetic predisposition toward concussions, or maybe the better term is to say some are more vulnerable to them. Even when guys like Roenick were in their prime not much attention was paid to concussions, they happened, they just weren't diagnosed. It's going to be a long time before modern science gets a real understanding of concussions and other brain injuries.
Lindros, once again Eric, THANK YOU for being an arrogant prick. The Avs couldn't have done it without you. Actually scratch that--the Avs couldn't have done it WITH you.
BTW, yet one more reason to believe that despite all this philanthropy Eric did off the ice that he's still a selfish prick need not look any further than his tenure with the Rags. He had a clause in there that would boost his contract from a paltry $2 million to something like $6 million based on games played. Unfortunately Slats should've based it on performance instead. Knowing this, Lindros half-assed an entire year, basically just floating along (in his defense, it wasn't like he was the ONLY greedy prick on the Rangers, just the biggest one), putting up a career high in games played while putting up career lows in points. IMO while worse players have made it to the hall, no way is he deserving of a spot in Toronto. Ever. |
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Av-merican wrote: |
Lil, you're discounting the fact that Lindros, from the time he was a wee pup until his last game in the NHL, never learned a basic tenet of hockey you're taught the very moment you're handed a stick, puck, and skates--KEEP YOUR HEAD UP. I have heard that and read that many times. I am embarassed to say I never noticed. How did he make it to the Pros fer gosh sakes?
There's also evidence that some people have a genetic predisposition toward concussions, or maybe the better term is to say some are more vulnerable to them. I'm not sure that is true. Concussions are external, not internal, so there cannot be a predisposition to them. That's like saying a person has a predisposition to car accidents. Of sourse, if you are a stupid driver..note "KEEP YOUR HEAD UP" ABOVE  Even when guys like Roenick were in their prime not much attention was paid to concussions, they happened, they just weren't diagnosed. It's going to be a long time before modern science gets a real understanding of concussions and other brain injuries. This may be very true. I remember when Vladie had his 'closed head injury', all we heard is that medical science didn't know that much about these kind of injuries. What IS known is that concussions are successive and the more concussions you have, the less nerve endings you have connecting your brain to the rest of your system.
Lindros, once again Eric, THANK YOU for being an arrogant prick. The Avs couldn't have done it without you. Actually scratch that--the Avs couldn't have done it WITH you. ROTFL I think you're right there!
BTW, yet one more reason to believe that despite all this philanthropy Eric did off the ice that he's still a selfish prick need not look any further than his tenure with the Rags. He had a clause in there that would boost his contract from a paltry $2 million to something like $6 million based on games played. Unfortunately Slats should've based it on performance instead. Knowing this, Lindros half-assed an entire year, basically just floating along (in his defense, it wasn't like he was the ONLY greedy prick on the Rangers, just the biggest one), putting up a career high in games played while putting up career lows in points. IMO while worse players have made it to the hall, no way is he deserving of a spot in Toronto. Ever. Well, from what I have read, Lindros was very selfish during his career - and of course there are all the "issues" he's had with various teams. |
Thank you for your post.
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1949
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Actually there is evidence some people are more vulnerable and take a longer time to recover from concussions than others. Eric's brother Brett also had to give up hockey early due to post-concussion syndrome. I believe Mike Comrie's brother had to do the same. I'm too lazy to look it up but if I'm wrong people please correct me.
In any event I should have probably been more specific, it might not be that concussions have a genetic link, but rather a person's ability or lack thereof to recover from post-concussion syndrome, which is the real beast. I guess I better back up some of what I say here with some research... |
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Bell Centre Ghost
Haunting the Bell Centre since 2005
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Guelph
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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"Previous studies have found the e4 allele of the apolipoprotein E gene (APOE e4) is associated with an unfavourable outcome after head injury, but this has not been related to specific pathological features"
Association of APOE e4 and cerebrovascular pathology in traumatic brain injury.
Smith, C; Graham, D I; Murray, L S; Stewart, J; Nicoll, J A R
Journal of neurology, neurosurgery, and psychiatry, 2006 Mar, 77(3):363-6
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The fans represent the soul of the organization. This is their team. Us, we simply try to make it better. They tell us when things are going good, and when they are less so. We don't always give them the impression that we are listening, but we are. |
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Bell Centre Ghost wrote: |
"Previous studies have found the e4 allele of the apolipoprotein E gene (APOE e4) is associated with an unfavourable outcome after head injury, but this has not been related to specific pathological features"
Association of APOE e4 and cerebrovascular pathology in traumatic brain injury.
Smith, C; Graham, D I; Murray, L S; Stewart, J; Nicoll, J A R
Journal of neurology, neurosurgery, and psychiatry, 2006 Mar, 77(3):363-6 |
In English, please.
does this have to do with the healing power of some bodies over others? I bruise easily but heal VERY fast. Genetics - OK - I can certainly agree that genetics may play a part in healing from a concussion - is that what you're saying?
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1949
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Lillith wrote: |
In English, please.
does this have to do with the healing power of some bodies over others? I bruise easily but heal VERY fast. Genetics - OK - I can certainly agree that genetics may play a part in healing from a concussion - is that what you're saying? |
I think that's the mystery that continues to confound even the most advanced technology medicine provides today. Concussions aren't anything like other injuries, it isn't like your brain is bruised or broken the same way you'd break or bruise another part of your body--the brain gets rattled and it's more like the software, rather than the hardware, gets scrambled up and malfunctions. It looks like there may be some people who (at a genetic level) are able to "reboot" quicker than others. I hope that makes sense. |
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