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Offthepost (Generation II)
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the New Cunning Linguist
Failed Bandwagon Opportunist
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1449
Location: I'm here, aren't I?
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1358
Location: Finger?
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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I can. He'll end his career a loser. Next stop Cooperstown, minus a ring.
If Ray Bourque can leave Boston to win a Cup, and Leetch to TO, then Sundin really has no excuse except to prove to the world just how the Leafs locker room is a country club.
He'll re-sign with them in the offseason. TKab, McCabe, Kubina and Tuck will all be back, collecting paycheques and preventing this franchise from moving forward. I thought Fletch was here to bring the tough love: tell these guys just how ostracized they'll be from the community if they don't accept responsibility for the failure of the franchise and move on. Instead they handled the situation with kid gloves, and Sundin realizes the ball is entirely in his court. Screw PR, it's time to show you're serious about moving on - because if you're not then you may as well be buyers in the offseason and go for the playoffs again.
Now the Leafs will finish out of the lottery (and likely the next few years as the vets will still be around), and the Leafs will end up with no top-5 picks to restock the franchise.
They needed to deal Sundin now. They can't rebuild otherwise.
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The Love Guru is a comedy like the Leafs are a hockey team. - G&M's Rick Groen
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Alabama Man
Now with 30% more rage!
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 586
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Can't say I blame him - he doesn't owe his employer anything. He's been consistently the best player on the team for each & every season he's played for them & yet, collects a modest salary for a player of his calibre.
His decision to enforce the no-trade suggests only that this is his last season in the NHL. I'm sure he hasn't made his mind up completely yet, but my bet is he is leaning towards retirement.
If he does decide to come back to play, it likely won't be with the Maple Leafs because:
1) Management will say fuck-you right back to him & will offer him a low-ball 1 year pact w/o the no-trade clause.
2) He didn't waive the no-trade. He could have returned to the Maple Leafs w/ another potential front-line winger (Bobby Ryan?). Sundin was pivotal in any effort to rebuild in a way such as the Flyers did (i.e., Forsberg trade); instead - he would return to a team even thinner on talent than it is now.
With that said, good on Mats!
From a fan's stand-point though, it sucks!
Reports circulating this morning suggest only the Tucker, McCabe, Kubina & Kaberle will not waive the no-trade either. (Kubina can be dealt this Summer however, which makes no sense on why he would not waive the clause right now for a potential to play longer this Spring).
But aside from the above, the only moveable assets are:
1) Antropov - MIGHT yield a 1st round pick in return as well as a prospect.
2) Ponikarovsky - See above
3) Kilger - May get the 2nd round pick back in this year's draft.
4) Blake - Too expensive? The guy does have wheels.
Could Steen, Stajan or Wellwood be moved for anything worth while? Is it worth it?
Aside from that, the rest are minor leaguers and/or much to expensive to fetch any return.
At this point, I would trade Toskala. Perhaps the Kings or Lightning or even Ottawa would be interested in his services. Leafs would therefore lose even more of the remaining games this season & move up in the draft order.
Really folks, this trade deadline is shaping up to be quite a dud if you're a Leaf fan.
Maybe Cliff does have a suprise or two left though! 
========
Potential UFA's to chase (given that at least Kubina's, Raycroft's & Sundin's salary are off the books):
M Hossa - $7 mill +
Michael Ryder - He seems to fit the mold on this team - reclamation project?
Jagr - Doesn't he want to play in Canada? He may dislike the TOR spotlight however.
Huselius - Just tossin' names out there!
Cleary - Seems to have found his nitch in Detroit - He oughta stay!
Nagy - ?
Demitra - ? Has cool hair!
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Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 996
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Well that sucks, for whatever hangup Sundin has about owning up to failure it seemed for a while that he fears winning a cup as a rental player. Though still would not surprise me if there was a change of mind, I will not fully believe this a dead issue until the deadline has past.
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Alabama Man
Now with 30% more rage!
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 586
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Me too.
At least for McCabe & Kubina.
Mrs. McCabe is from Long Island & they live there during the off season .... All of Philly, NJ, NY & LI are in driving distance. Isn't this what McCabe was all hung up on prior to signing the deal with Toronto? Nonethelss, his value will be some what reduced I would imagine because of his salary .... but maybe not if the likes of Brian Campbell are going to command $7 million in the off season  (Read that, but find that hard to believe ... who knows though).
As for Kubina .... He's gone this Summer anyway, why not leave now?
And how does the sports press KNOW there was a deal in the works to send Kaberle over to Philly for Jeff Carter?
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kylos
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| I don't understand this whole situation I mean we are talking about Sundin here and he's said from the get go he has no interest in leaving so why would it be any surprise that when he's finally officially approached about it he says no. I mean it's his right to say no and he's exercised that right from the get go. The only person/people who should be vilified in this are Ferguson and MLSE namely richard peddie for allowing all these no movement clauses to be there to bite the team in the ass now when they should be looking at rebuilding now it's a waiting process untiil all these guys leave for no return(not that they could yield a whole lot anyway). It's gonna be a long couple years in TO sorry guys. |
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Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 996
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Kinda ironic that the Big Swede would suffer "Stockholm Syndrome"
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 2928
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Alabama Man wrote: |
And how does the sports press KNOW there was a deal in the works to send Kaberle over to Philly for Jeff Carter?
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I seriously can't believe that rumour. Philly would have to clear more than $4 million in cap space next year just to be able to do that deal. Is LTIR a season to season thing, because Rathje takes up like 3.5 million of the payroll next year. Carter isn't on the books, and they've committed 49 for next year already. Is Toronto going to take back Hatcher and another player? Where is the corresponding rumour that would allow the Flyers to make this move?
Sundin has a NTC because he wants to win the Cup - in Toronto. It's Mats' job to play hockey for the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's not his job to waive his NTC so that Fletch can make this team better. It's not his job to do management's job of a team so fucked over by large, mo-whatever contracts given out by JFJ. It's Fletch's job to see what he can do as a "short-term fixer".
Yeah, Mats could waive it and it would be great for the Maple Leafs, but then Mats would not be a member of the team that he wants to play for and helped to improve by allowing himself to be shipped out. Mats' job is to play his best hockey for the Maple Leafs, not aid in the Leafs rebuilding process as a member of a different team.
Based on the length and clauses in many of these contracts, the rebuilding process is going to be a looooooooong one if the players have no interest in waiving their clauses...I can't wait to see how the MLSE board reacts, and we can only hope the suits stop going to the games to show those idiots...
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hammer
2 Legit 2 Quit
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 181
Location: Frisco
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Hounsy wrote: |
| Kinda ironic that the Big Swede would suffer "Stockholm Syndrome" |
HA HA HA LOL!!! |
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Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 996
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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"I cannot leave my teammates and join another NHL Club at this time. I have never believed in the concept of a rental player. It is my belief that winning the Stanley Cup is the greatest thing you can achieve in hockey but for me, in order to appreciate it you have to have been part of the entire journey and that means October through June. I hope everyone will understand and respect my decision."
Hey must give him credit, he is willing to go down with the ship due to his belief in the above and that is at the least pretty noble.
That said I am sure some guys have died virgins waiting for a supermodel to have sex with them.
Sundin you screwed me over as a fan of the Leafs, but I'm okay with what your doing.
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Captain Chaos
(Formerly Lieutenant Chaos)
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 377
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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I think Sundin is doing the right thing: He's the Captain and the Captain always goes down with the ship.
Just kidding: actually I think he was damned if he did and damned if didn't so he made a decision based on his heart. No Ryan Smyth alligator tears for Mats - he's a Leaf, he's the Captain and it's pretty clear that that means something to him.
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1673
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Don't hate the playa, hate the clause.
Toronto is 100% to blame here, not Sundin, not Kaberle, not Kubina, and certainly not McCabe. It was the idiots running the asylum who threw out NTCs and NMCs like they were going out of style. They didn't have to sign ANY of those guys to deals, but they did, and now they're stuck.
That being said I no longer have any sympathy for Sundin having shit linemates all these years. I woulda thunk he wanted to at least see what it would be like to have forwards on his wings who weren't goons, overpaid grinders, washed-up Swedes, or aging Russians. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 2928
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Av-merican wrote: |
That being said I no longer have any sympathy for Sundin having shit linemates all these years. I woulda thunk he wanted to at least see what it would be like to have forwards on his wings who weren't goons, overpaid grinders, washed-up Swedes, or aging Russians. |
I still do. Even if he got traded and then returned, he wouldn't see the fruits of it turning into top-line talent before the end of his career.
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1358
Location: Finger?
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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It's not about blame, it's about Cliff being brought in here to clean the decks.
If this franchise was serious and not a bunch of wafflers, they would have purged the roster by any means necessary. You tell these guys just how awful life is going to be as a Maple Leaf in 08-09, and you make deals behind their backs. You think if Brett Hull calls Mats and tells him how much he wants him in Dallas and they're going to win a Cup together, Mats will say he'd rather stay on a dead franchise where he'll be hated? Unless he's a born loser, I doubt it.
Cliff should have told him the team had no plans on bringing him back next season. Tell Mats he's leaving the Leafs and this is his one chance to do it on his own accord. Once Mats goes, the rest would have followed.
Sadly, the Leafs are run by thugs like Domi and Healy telling sweet nothings in Peddie's ear, who think it's more important to have an easygoing clubhouse atmosphere than a winning organization.
Leafs fans for the most part are actually accepting Mats' excuse. Where the hell is your sense of pride?
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The Love Guru is a comedy like the Leafs are a hockey team. - G&M's Rick Groen
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Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 996
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| 2 Girls, 1 E.L., 1 Cup wrote: |
| Leafs fans for the most part are actually accepting Mats' excuse. Where the hell is your sense of pride? |
What other possible motivation could he have to want to ride out the last couple of months?
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Tuzer
No longer Croozing
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 792
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Chaos wrote: |
I think Sundin is doing the right thing: He's the Captain and the Captain always goes down with the ship.
Just kidding: actually I think he was damned if he did and damned if didn't so he made a decision based on his heart. No Ryan Smyth alligator tears for Mats - he's a Leaf, he's the Captain and it's pretty clear that that means something to him.
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Fuck does he look like a pussy |
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BLUENECK
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 135
Location: NECKOSLOVAKIA, VT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yes frustrating times for Leafs fans, but its not Mats fault JfJr was a moron and the other 4 players w/ nmc/ntc are mediocre or washed up. Again year and year out the captain puts up numbers (never below 70 pts in 13 seasons w/ TO) and fulfills his role. He is the only player who should have had a NMC/NTC to begin with.
We must treat him with the respect and class he deserves. Now the others...no respect/loyalty due. Cliff should have threatened to send all of their asses to the minors or let them sit and rot in the stands if they would not move their NMC/NTC. I agree w/ EL hardball here is imperative however you don't due it to the guy who has bled blue and white for 13 years...... |
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Tuzer
No longer Croozing
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 792
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Blame Ballard!! |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 911
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 2928
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Someone needs to give me an explanation on the associated deals that would have accompanied the Philly trade, because that trade is impossible without 2 or 3 other deals to shed salary for next season on Philly's end.
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