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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3421
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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 Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: Bergeron taken off on a stretcher |
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He showed some movement in replays, but they immobilized him before taking him off.
Hit from behind. Race for the puck, facing the boards the whole way and no turn to protect the puck, Randy Jones plants and drives Bergeron headfirst into the boards. Jones tossed. I don't know if I would describe the hit as vicious in intent, but absolutely reckless and careles as fuck.
I don't have to tell you what team Randy Jones plays for.
Get better Patrice...
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Captain Chaos
(Formerly Lieutenant Chaos)
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 439
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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What is with the Flyers? 
Hopefully nothing seriously wrong with Bergeron. |
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Stinky
Woman of Color of the Post
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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I really like the hab killer bergeron. I hope he gets well soon Wish he were a hab.
fucking fliers...
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Thank god the reign of W is about to end. Could a person be more dense? |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1787
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Randy Jones is a dead man. I hope he enjoyed breathing. I can't wait to see what Lucic does to that gutless, spineless, waste of DNA. I hope they end his career. Period. Cocksucking motherfucker.
Once, fine, Downie is an ass. Twice, ok, Boulerice has a history. Thrice, a guy with no history... it's time to send a message to the team, because for whatever reason they keep doing this. I'm thinking a Bertuzzi like fine of the coach, GM, team, owner, whatever, oughta do it.
Goes without saying I hope Bergeron makes a full recovery, never mind his hockey career.
Jones should get 25 games for that. Don't give me any bullshit about how he didn't use a stick - that point is absolutely positively irrelevant... |
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Caniac Chuck
Curator of the Dog Park
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 268
Location: Greensboro, NC
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Jones shouldn't get shit man. Its just an unfortunate accident. If Bergeron had been more upright instead of falling over backwards almost this would be a non issue.
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swflyers8
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Location: Norristown, PA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Jones isn't that type of player. So don't associate him with the idiot known as Jesse Boulerice or Mr. I can't control myself Downie. Randy is nothing like them at all. He is a good kid, just doing what any other defenseman would have done. He followed the guy in on the puck, 9 times out of 10 the guy stays upright. He doesn't slam on the brakes at the last minute and think hey, this guy will be penalized if he hits me. I don't think Bergeron will see it the way you are all describing either.
Jones never plays dirty. He has had a very good year so far, had a strong camp. He plays smart hockey. He is more of an offensive defenseman. I hope that Patrice is ok and Randy doesn't let this ruin what he has done so far.
I totally agree what the other two did was wrong. Randy didn't do that here.
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Caniac Chuck
Curator of the Dog Park
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 268
Location: Greensboro, NC
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Patiently waiting for Razz to go apeshit on us...
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1787
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Caniac Chuck wrote: |
| Jones shouldn't get shit man. Its just an unfortunate accident. If Bergeron had been more upright instead of falling over backwards almost this would be a non issue. |
Look, you guys are entitled to your opinion, and any commentary pro or anti Bruin is welcome here, but shocker of shocks I disagree. I never played the game and even I know that one of the cardinal rules in hockey is that that is a vulnerable spot and you don't drill guys there.
JI agree Jones isn't generally dirty, so distinguishing him from Boulerice and Downie is fair. But it was a dirty hit. If we're calling Jones a clean player, then we're also going to accurately portray Bergeron. Bergeron is not a player who dives, or turns last minute to draw a BS boarding call. He plays the game properly, went into a vulnerable position, and regrettably for all concerned Jones didn't use good judgement at all and drilled him. He's a young kid who made a big mistake, and he has to pay for it. The league will deal with him, and then when the B's see him again, they'll deal with it too.
My point in associating him with the other two is that for whatever reason, the Flyers aren't getting the message. What are we, 10 games in and already they could easily have ended 3 careers. This has to stop, and apparently 20 and 25 game suspensions to guys with bad track records don't work, because now a guy with a clean track record has crossed the line... This has to stop, and apparently the league needs to up the ante. Time to fine the shit out of that organization... |
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the S Fox
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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First reaction when I heard it was the Flyers, was here we go again.
Looking at the replays, however, it didn't appear to be an intentional dirty hit. Bergeron was in a vulnerable position (as mentioned by Cherry, don't get into that position along the boards). Whether Jones knew he (Bergeron) was vulnerable is up for debate, but IMO it wasn't a pre-meditated action which in my mind seperates it from the other two incidents with the Flyers players.
It goes back to respect for opposition players. Perhaps a large stop sign across the whole back of the sweater will attract some attention of players about to throw a check.
Hell, with the technology rbk has, maybe they could invent something that will change the color of the uni if the player being checked is a certain distance from the boards and facing it. |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1787
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Key for me is, Bergeron has gained position, and is stopped when Jones pushes off and hits him into the boards. OK, maybe Bergeron should have picked a different piece of real estate. Assuming without deciding the point, Jones still made the decision to hit him, and he had ample opportunity to realize where Bergy was... |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1787
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1787
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3756
Location: Saskatoon!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Do I think Jones is a dirty player? No. Do I think that was an idiotic move by him? Yes.
Bergeron was ridiculously vulenrable and Jones failed to adjust his hit at all. I first saw this on Sportsnet and I couldn't believe the panel there... they actually believed it was Bergeron's fault. The dude skated straight at the puck, did not turn at all, and Jones came in and hit him directly from behind into the boards and put him on a stretcher. Fuck me, that is not fucking Bergeron's fault. I know there's a big push for players to protect themselves right now, but that's ridiculous in this case. Jones could've stopped that hit a long time before. Suspend him.
25 games? No. It's an idiot's move by a guy that's never done anything anywhere near as idiotic. Anything up to 5 games is fine and understandable.
But I agree with razz (what the fuck?). Fine the Flyers at this point. GET THE FUCKING MESSAGE ALREADY. I was incredibly behind the NHL's fining of Vancouver post-Bertuzzi, and you can bet your ass the Flyers deserve it now. Yes, Downie was a loose cannon (though the Flyers still drafted and signed him). Yes, Boulerice was the same (though the Flyers still drafted and signed him). But at this point, 3 strikes rule applies. The Flyers organization needs to shoulder some of the blame for this reckless behaviour. It's beyond the point of ridiculous.
But that won't happen. Snider is too good of friends with Buttman, and too important to the league. Even Jacobs will back off on that much of a sanction.
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"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
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deutschlander
Sausage of die Post
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: |
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shit! I just watched the hit on you tube. You don't things like that. I hope Bergeron is getting well soon.
Broken nose and a concussion? |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3421
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| saskhab wrote: |
Do I think Jones is a dirty player? No. Do I think that was an idiotic move by him? Yes.
Bergeron was ridiculously vulenrable and Jones failed to adjust his hit at all. I first saw this on Sportsnet and I couldn't believe the panel there... they actually believed it was Bergeron's fault. The dude skated straight at the puck, did not turn at all, and Jones came in and hit him directly from behind into the boards and put him on a stretcher. Fuck me, that is not fucking Bergeron's fault. I know there's a big push for players to protect themselves right now, but that's ridiculous in this case. Jones could've stopped that hit a long time before. Suspend him.
25 games? No. It's an idiot's move by a guy that's never done anything anywhere near as idiotic. Anything up to 5 games is fine and understandable.
But I agree with razz (what the fuck?). Fine the Flyers at this point. GET THE FUCKING MESSAGE ALREADY. I was incredibly behind the NHL's fining of Vancouver post-Bertuzzi, and you can bet your ass the Flyers deserve it now. Yes, Downie was a loose cannon (though the Flyers still drafted and signed him). Yes, Boulerice was the same (though the Flyers still drafted and signed him). But at this point, 3 strikes rule applies. The Flyers organization needs to shoulder some of the blame for this reckless behaviour. It's beyond the point of ridiculous.
But that won't happen. Snider is too good of friends with Buttman, and too important to the league. Even Jacobs will back off on that much of a sanction. |
I agree with pretty much everything you said there, Sask. I don't think Jones has a history of dirty play and I don't think that this has the intent of hurting a guy like Boulerice and Downie. However, it was completely stupid and reckless, and a very easily avoidable hitting from behind.
Sorry Chuck, he was leaning over into his stop, so it is an issue. Saying it's a non-issue if he wasn't leaning over doesn't make it a non-issue, because Jones still plowed him from behind when it could have easily been avoided. That doen't make bergeron responsible for what happened.
How can anyone look at this and say it was Bergeron's fault for putting himself into a vulnerable position?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OMbDKGBkE_M
For fucks sake, he's not spinning to protect the puck and getting drilled into the boards. He's not crossing the blue line with his head down with Stevens or Volchenkov on the other side. He's not skating behind the net in the trolly tracks with his head down. He's not making a drop pass looking behind to see if his teammate receives it. He skating towards the corner making a play on the puck, and Jones has a full view of his back the whole way, and Jones plants his arm behind Bergeron's shoulder. The announcers in the clip are claiming that Jones started the hit before Bergeron put on the brakes. Fucking idiots. Jones sees his back and goes for the hit. Regardless of Bergeron putting on the brakes, he was facing his fucking back the whole way in. When you have a perfect view of the back of a player facing the boards, it's very simple. YOU DON"T TRY TO FUCKING DRILL HIM.
Agreed with the Flyers getting punished. This is getting stupid, but like you said Sask, there's no way Bettman and Campbell would ever have the balls to do it.
I've always been a big advocate for heavily suspending hitting from behinds that clearly aren't borderline. This isn't borderline. Jones had a clear view of his back the whole way in and still drilled him. I would love to see 10 games for it, but the league has always done nothing in it's most literal sense with respect to hitting from behind. I will shit my pants it he gets more than 2.
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Caniac Chuck
Curator of the Dog Park
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 268
Location: Greensboro, NC
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Its bullshit because everybody is calling for a punishment based off an injury. If Bergeron had bounced right back up and kept playing it would have been a 2 minute minor at the most. Punishing guys based on injuries is wrong.
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1739
Location: Fuck tha MTL police
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Caniac Chuck wrote: |
| Its bullshit because everybody is calling for a punishment based off an injury. If Bergeron had bounced right back up and kept playing it would have been a 2 minute minor at the most. Punishing guys based on injuries is wrong. |
Agreed, we should be punishing the actions, not the results.
In this case, I agree that Bergeron did no favours to himself by intentionally turning his back, but Jones - in the heat of the moment, mind you - gave an additional push from behind which caused Bergy to hit the boards awkwardly.
Jones may not be a cheap player and he certainly wasn't headhunting like Downie, Boulerice, Armstrong or Orpik, but he is responsible for his actions at all times on the ice and at that moment chose to push Bergeron with much force from behind.
It's pathetic how this league does less to protect star players and especially goalies today than they were 15 years ago before all the needless tinkering started. Jones needs to be suspended, the Flyers need to be held accountable, and precedents need to be set right now.
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It seems like you need to be a physics professor to choose the right TV. Luckily, I am one.
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3421
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Caniac Chuck wrote: |
| Its bullshit because everybody is calling for a punishment based off an injury. If Bergeron had bounced right back up and kept playing it would have been a 2 minute minor at the most. Punishing guys based on injuries is wrong. |
For the record, I'm not calling for a suspension based on the fact that he was hurt on the play. I'm calling for a suspension based on the fact that he was drilled from behind on a completely avoidable hit. Hits like these should be suspended regardless of the outcome because they're dangerous as hell, as shown by this case and countless others.
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3421
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| E.L. wrote: |
It's pathetic how this league does less to protect star players and especially goalies today than they were 15 years ago before all the needless tinkering started. Jones needs to be suspended, the Flyers need to be held accountable, and precedents need to be set right now. |
Yup.
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1787
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Bergeron did himself no favours? I suppose he's expect to forecheck by skating backwards? Give me a break.
Bosc is bang on - Jones saw him, then began the hit. THAT is the problem. Chuck you're right that we should punish the action not the injury, but that just means if you hit someone from behind like that you should be gone for minumum 10-15 games, even if he gets back up.
Maybe then they'll get the message...
This is very similar to the hit Eaves laid on Savard last year. But of course, Savvy got back up, essentially, so no one remembers it... |
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