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Jyrki21
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1722
Location: Ottawa, ON
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 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
| I disagree with Ken Campbell , I say its excusable and not saying that in hindsight. |
We actually commented on this very excerpt in the Hockey Talk forum (see the GM rankings thread), and those of us with any sense agreed that that was an idiotic thing to say, given that that's not the reason that the trade wasn't made, with that whole goalie thing and all. (And even if it were the reason, it would be perfectly excusable).
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1553
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Av-merican wrote: |
So what are the top offseason needs? I said before the team shouldn't drop another dime on the blueline, but really, I think you guys could use another Jeff Brown (and no, not to put Luongo's marriage in jeopardy), a guy who, if I remember correctly, didn't have a lot of flash to his game but could QB the power play well. The pieces are there for a tremendous power play with guys like Salo on the point and the twins setting the table, but that does you no good if the guy starting with the puck in the defensive zone can't move it up ice with authority. BXA and Bourdon may yet blossom into those kinds of guys, but they're still pretty green.
Don't know who's on the open market who might fill that role...Wade Redden perhaps if he were to take a substantial paycut, or Patrice Brisebois if Nonis were to reach deep into the bargain bin.
Apart from that, obviously Nonis will likely be looking for a top scoring winger in some form, and maybe a 2nd line center if Morrison bolts. |
John Michael Liles  |
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freakydave
Less freaky once you get to know him
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
Location: Rollin down the street
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
| razzmatazz wrote: |
| Nonis says they'll contend next year. Time to fire him if he thinks he has the prospect depth to ice a competitive team next year. Maybe he plans to sign a ton of free agents, but if so, goodbye team chemistry. Not that chemistry was a plus at the end, I suppose, but still... |
that was Nonis getting to use his Brian Burke 15 yr apprenticeship. That was Nonis trying to do a sales job and rally the troops. He says this team is close to winning a Cup then says there's many changes coming this summer. |
Mark my words Nonis should be fired now but instead he'll be given one more chance. If it's down to the wire next spring his contract will not be renewed.
He really piles up the manure--"closer to a cup"--how many of last 2 offseasons' flops will be sticking around ?
when he talks about changes -I'd be happy with 4 new faces ,a 1st line & RW for the 1b.
If he turns his career around I'll be happy for him & the team but outside of Luongo(Keenan's manlove for bert) & Mitchell he hasn't done much. |
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1766
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| razzmatazz wrote: |
| John Michael Liles |
Ack...you may be right. 
One thing I forgot to mention is that for all the discipline AV brings to the table, why is it this team had such a penchant for taking dumb penalties? That'll have to be addressed for sure, not sure how apart from stressing to the coach that he has to get his hoodlums in line. Strangely enough though there aren't really that many "hoodlums" in the Vancouver lineup.  |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 926
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| freakydave wrote: |
Mark my words Nonis should be fired now but instead he'll be given one more chance. If it's down to the wire next spring his contract will not be renewed.
He really piles up the manure--"closer to a cup"--how many of last 2 offseasons' flops will be sticking around ?
when he talks about changes -I'd be happy with 4 new faces ,a 1st line & RW for the 1b.
If he turns his career around I'll be happy for him & the team but outside of Luongo(Keenan's manlove for bert) & Mitchell he hasn't done much. |
We both agree on one thing , this is NOnis' last stand. Though you want him fired but willing to give him a chance to redeem , I wont fire yet but admit this is his last shot to show something. The heat is on. |
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saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3135
Location: Saskatoon!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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If he were to be fired, I don't think you can just replace him with Tambellini. That'd be business as usual, Burke's guy #3.
If you want real change, you'd have to go outside the organization.
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"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
- Mark Corrigan, Peep Show |
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the New Cunning Linguist
Like a good neighbor, but not
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1513
Location: I'm here, aren't I?
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| freakydave wrote: |
| outside of Luongo(Keenan's manlove for bert) & Mitchell he hasn't done much. |
Well, I'll respectfully disagree with you there. In addition to the Bertuzzi/Auld/Allen for Luongo/Krajicek/(Shirokov) deal, among many other things he's done for the club that I've forgotten, he:
- Signed UFA Anson Carter prior to the '04/'05 season for $1m - he played very well alongside the Sedins
- Matched Philly's offer for Ryan Kesler; this season, Kesler blossomed
- Found a trading partner on which to offload impending UFA Matt Cooke, and in the meantime, picked up someone cheaper and under contract for one more season
- Upgraded the backup goalie job last summer by signing Sanford
- Gave BXA a contract extension last summer
- Signed the Sedins to their current contract
- Brought back Trevor Linden to the team that he began his career with
- Brought in Alain Vigneault to coach the big club and hired Scott Arniel to coach the Moose
- Re-signed Markus Naslund three years ago
- Found someone to take Dan Cloutier for a pick
- Signed Willie Mitchell
There are also the moves he didn't make which to me, are just as important:
- Didn't cave into Carter's demands for a contract in the $2m+ range - he's since bounced around the league and now plays in Europe
- Didn't give up Edler, Kesler, Schneider and/or Bourdon for a UFA rental or Brad Richards at this year's deadline
And let's not forget that he's been working with the organization since the 1990s. Now, I'm not saying that he's perfect or that everything that he's touched has turned to gold, but to me, he's done some very good things that shouldn't be overlooked.
And besides, he went to my high school.
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... Because the old one, is well, old.
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the New Cunning Linguist
Like a good neighbor, but not
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1513
Location: I'm here, aren't I?
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Av-merican wrote: |
| One thing I forgot to mention is that for all the discipline AV brings to the table, why is it this team had such a penchant for taking dumb penalties? That'll have to be addressed for sure, not sure how apart from stressing to the coach that he has to get his hoodlums in line. Strangely enough though there aren't really that many "hoodlums" in the Vancouver lineup. |
sigh... I think it comes from at least a couple of things...
a) Lousy faceoff skills: More often than not, they end up chasing the other team to get the puck after the faceoff.
b) Lack of foot speed: Can't tell you how often Henrik Sedin took a hooking penalty late in the game to squash any momentum in the third period, or when Mattias Ohlund put a stick on a guy at the absolute wrong time.
c) Too much success last season on the PK: I think everyone thought that with the PK unit mostly intact, they should eventually find their way back to being close to the best in the league at the PK. They weren't.
d) Too many slow-footed, light-middleweights on the fourth line that are easily outpositioned.
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... Because the old one, is well, old.
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freakydave
Less freaky once you get to know him
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
Location: Rollin down the street
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| the New Cunning Linguist wrote: |
| freakydave wrote: |
| outside of Luongo(Keenan's manlove for bert) & Mitchell he hasn't done much. |
Well, I'll respectfully disagree with you there. In addition to the Bertuzzi/Auld/Allen for Luongo/Krajicek/(Shirokov) deal, among many other things he's done for the club that I've forgotten, he:
- Signed UFA Anson Carter prior to the '04/'05 season for $1m - he played very well alongside the Sedins
- Matched Philly's offer for Ryan Kesler; this season, Kesler blossomed
- Found a trading partner on which to offload impending UFA Matt Cooke, and in the meantime, picked up someone cheaper and under contract for one more season
- Upgraded the backup goalie job last summer by signing Sanford
- Gave BXA a contract extension last summer
- Signed the Sedins to their current contract
- Brought back Trevor Linden to the team that he began his career with
- Brought in Alain Vigneault to coach the big club and hired Scott Arniel to coach the Moose
- Re-signed Markus Naslund three years ago
- Found someone to take Dan Cloutier for a pick
- Signed Willie Mitchell
There are also the moves he didn't make which to me, are just as important:
- Didn't cave into Carter's demands for a contract in the $2m+ range - he's since bounced around the league and now plays in Europe
- Didn't give up Edler, Kesler, Schneider and/or Bourdon for a UFA rental or Brad Richards at this year's deadline
And let's not forget that he's been working with the organization since the 1990s. Now, I'm not saying that he's perfect or that everything that he's touched has turned to gold, but to me, he's done some very good things that shouldn't be overlooked.
And besides, he went to my high school. |
1)Signing Anson Carter for a million--good move but no playoffs
2)Matching Kesler offer = SOP from the Burke manual (1.9 wasn't high enough to be considered risky to match)
3)Matt Cooke asked for a trade or that wouldn't have happened & what took so long?
4) Sanford is an upgrade on Sabourin ? What are you basing that on?
certainly not Sanford's play in Vancouver
5) BXA currently not living up to said contract
6)Sedins good deal
7)Linden -sentimental more PR than part of winning hockey games-NOT THAT HE DIDN'T GIVE HIS ALL TO THE CAUSE when AV let him actually play--given what he has meant to this mkt not exactly genius material on Nonis part.
 didn't I mention AV should be fired?
9)Wasn't BB the GM when Naslund got his last deal?
but Nonis did negotiate the current cap problems.He is partially responsible for that.
10)You are right about Clouchoke good move
11) I already mentioned Mitchell
12) not caving into Carter--he already created a situation where he couldn't afford to & then spent that money on Chouinard?
13)Didn't give up Schneider and/or Bourdon for a UFA rental or Brad Richards at this year's deadline---he tried to do just that--he had no takers---hardly worthy of credit---hanging on to Edler & Kesler another no brainer.
It's all a matter perspective & this offseason will tell the tale
_________________
Mark my words Nonis is a mediocre GM-
I called for his head 07/08
fired apr 14th/08
AV has escaped the axe for now |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 926
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| to be technically fair on BXA he was still making his 500K last season , his new 3.5 M doesnt kick until next season so rotten fruit can be thrown in his direction from this point on! |
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freakydave
Less freaky once you get to know him
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
Location: Rollin down the street
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Cannots Luvah wrote: |
| to be technically fair on BXA he was still making his 500K last season , his new 3.5 M doesnt kick until next season so rotten fruit can be thrown in his direction from this point on! |
I am not really down on BXA but on the basis of one very good season where apparently the whole team over acheived--Bxa got a contract from Nonis that may or may not be a good deal--but based on the playoffs & limited action this year is looking like an overpayment.This team can't afford those kinds of mistakes.
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Mark my words Nonis is a mediocre GM-
I called for his head 07/08
fired apr 14th/08
AV has escaped the axe for now |
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freakydave
Less freaky once you get to know him
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 164
Location: Rollin down the street
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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"Nonis served six seasons as Senior Vice President, Director of Hockey Operations, where he was the club's cheif negotiator of player contracts and was responsible for Vancouver's minor league affiliate agreement with the Manitoba Moose of the AHL. He also directed all areas of the Hockey Operations Department.
Over the past seven seasons, Dave has led the negotiation of a number of long-term agreements with many of Vancouver's core players and was intrumental in forecasting the team's budget and payroll which helped to re-stabilize the NHL club's economic and long-term viability in Vancouver.
Prior to joining the Canucks as Senior Vice-President, Director of Hockey Operations in 1998, Nonis served as the National Hockey League's Manager of Hockey Operations for four seasons. In his role, Nonis gained a vast knowledge of the Collective Bargaining Agreement and helped finalize sections of the document when the latest edition was drafted during the 1994-95 season. He also worked with the league's arbitration team, which included helping teams prepare for arbitration, researching salaries and interpreting contract language.
Nonis originally broke into the NHL with the Canucks in 1990. In his first years with the team he was primarily responsible for corporate contracts, computer scouting and team services. "
Is this the resume of NHL GM ?
It seems to me this blurb indicates that Nonis himself is responsible for cap mess that he complained was tying his hands for the last 2 trade deadlines?
The case for Tambellini
Steve Tambellini
Vice President And Assistant General Manager
"In February 2002, Steve won an Olympic gold medal with Team Canada as Director, Player Personnel. Steve worked closely with Executive Director, Wayne Gretzky, Assistant Executive Director Kevin Lowe, Head Coach Pat Quinn and the coaching staff in the selection, evaluation and scouting of players who represented Canada in the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Tambellini's success continued when he was named General Manager for Team Canada at the 2003 World Hockey Championships where his club struck gold in Finland...
A former player, Tambellini played 10 seasons in the NHL after he was drafted 15th overall in the 1978 Entry Draft by the NY Islanders. He won a Stanley Cup with the Islanders in 1980, and was eventually traded to Colorado with Glenn Resch for Mike McEwen and Jari Kaarela on March 10. 1981. He played one season in Colorado before the franchise was relocated to New Jersey in June of '82. On June 20, 1983, Tambellini was traded to the Calgary Flames with Joel Quenneville for Mel Bridgman and Phil Russell. He played for the Flames for two seasons (1983-84, 1984-85) before signing as a free agent with the Canucks on August 28, 1985. Tambellini played three seasons in Vancouver (1985-86, 1986-87, 1987-8, recording 42 goals and 45 assists for 87 points in 161 games. He played in 553 career NHL games, recording 160 goals, 150 assists (310 points) and 105 penalty minutes. Tambellini also represented Team Canada on three occasions. He played in the World Junior Championships in 1978, the World Championships in 1981 and in the 1988 Winter Olympics in Calgary, AB."
Seems like more of a "hockey guy"
We've already seen what Nonis is capable of & IMO Tambellini could only be better.
_________________
Mark my words Nonis is a mediocre GM-
I called for his head 07/08
fired apr 14th/08
AV has escaped the axe for now |
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Cannots Luvah
Mike Weaver jersey on order
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 926
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| FREAK! YOUR WISH HAS BEEN GRANTED... and then hopefully mine.. and maybe all of ours! ... holy SHIT! |
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