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Caniac Chuck
Curator of the Dog Park
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 268
Location: Greensboro, NC
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hipcheck
Wears red stockings
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 539
Location: The Box
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 Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Bob smokes too much crack
Bergeron didn't turn his back to Jones at the last second, his back was too him the entire time.
Bergeron skated directly to the puck ( which requires having his back to the guy chasing him ). Jones never looked at the puck, his intent from the outset was to drill Bergeron into the boards. He not only delivered the hit, he extended his arms through the back of Bergeron's head, which is where the real damage was done.
To suggest Jones was "anticipating" Bergeron curling along the boards to face him (which would mean not getting the puck) in order to make the hit legal would be the equivalent of slamming into someone's rear end at a stop light because you anticipated them running the light.
I've seen players suspended for 10 games for less than this.
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I'm a Bruins fan - don't try to confuse me with the facts |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1653
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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The intelligent debate on the subject here is great, but let's leave Big Head out of it. Sportsnet and TSN are to the Leafs what Al-Jazeera is to Bin Laden. If this was Alex Steen getting pasted they'd have commissioned a crusade against Randy Jones...
I honestly don't get blaming Bergeron. What was he supposed to do differently? The only thing he could have done was put himself closer to the boards, but then he wouldn't have been as free to play the puck. Surely to God he doesn't have to adjust his advantageous positioning because using it puts him in jeapordy of being hit from behind. Short of approaching the puck by skating backwards, he had no other viable option.
And in any event, Randy Jones had the time to assess the situation. He did so, and decided to paste Bergeron. To be fair he had no intent to hurt Bergy like he did, but he sure as hell intended the hit, got his arm up, and in that situation you are 100% responsible for your actions, no ifs ands or buts... |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3215
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| razzmatazz wrote: |
| The intelligent debate on the subject here is great, but let's leave Big Head out of it. Sportsnet and TSN are to the Leafs what Al-Jazeera is to Bin Laden. If this was Alex Steen getting pasted they'd have commissioned a crusade against Randy Jones... |
Big head does not have wood for the Leafs.
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harmfuljays
King of Men
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1259
Location: Djibouti
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
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a borderline questionable hit. 5 minutes for boarding was enough.
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swflyers8
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Norristown, PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Bob is correct.
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3215
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| swflyers8 wrote: |
| Bob is correct. |
I generally agree with Bob. I think we've all agreed here that his intent certainly wasn't malicious and that this isn't comparable to the Downie and Boulerice hits.
It was still a completely needless and reckless hit from behind. You can't go into a hit like this simply expecting that a guy will react the way you want him to so that you won't drill him from behind. That's dangerous. And while Bob points out that the prevailing opinion is that this happens countless times during a game, it doesn't happen often where the player stops and the guy plants his arm behind the shoulder blades and drives him head-first into the boards. Guys get put up against the boards all the time, not drilled from behind 5 feet from the boards. Jones had the oppotunity to let up like he should have, but he didn't, so Bergeron went into the boards headfirst. And often it results in injuries like this. That's why I've always called for the NHL to crack down on blatant hits from behind. I'd love to see 10 games, but that's not going to happen. Bergeron bent over, and Jones still planted his arms behind his shoulder blades and followed through. Stupid.
Orpik got 3 for his, but that was pre-lockout so I don't know if it has any precedent. I also don't know if Orpik had any history of dirty hits prior to that, but he certainly has a rep for it now. I think this hit was more avoidable, so I guess we'll see what, if anything, the league hands down.
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1990
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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I hate to pull player POV snobbery here but if you've ever played the game there is no question of that being a dirty hit. I agree with everyone else there was no intention but you have to keep your head screwed on in times like that. Jones just looked like he was on autopilot the whole way, inexcusable.
When I was younger I too got drilled from behind and broke my collarbone, the guy forechecking didn't slow down from a full gallop and hit me so hard with lumber in the back I left my skates. True, I should have looked back and seen he was behind me and taken better precautions but that absolved that fucker of NOTHING.
And yes, The Flyboys need to be punished as a whole. I'm getting sick of this shit. |
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swflyers8
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Norristown, PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Av-merican wrote: |
And yes, The Flyboys need to be punished as a whole. I'm getting sick of this shit. |
Too bad, that's not going to happen. Jones got two games:
TSN.ca Staff
10/29/2007 2:29:44 PM
The National Hockey League has suspended Philadelphia Flyers defenceman Randy Jones for two games for his hit on Boston Bruins forward Patrice Bergeron on Saturday.
Bergeron was diagnosed with a broken nose and a concussion after being hammered to the boards face-first by Jones in Boston's 2-1 loss to Philadelphia.
He was released from hospital on Sunday and the Bruins are expected to address his status today.
"While it is my determination that Jones did not intend to injure his opponent, he did deliver a hard check to a player who was in a vulnerable position," said NHL Senior Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations Colin Campbell in a press release. "There have been suggestions by some that this hit was comparable to incidents earlier this season where players received significant game suspensions for blows to the head. These comparisons and suggestions are wrong," Campbell added.
Read the rest here:
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=221683&hubname=
That's fine with me.
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1990
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| swflyers8 wrote: |
| Too bad, that's not going to happen. Jones got two games |
Okay, agree to disagree and all that.
At the very least the NHL suspended him. Guess we gotta wait until the next incident to see if the league got it right. |
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saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3413
Location: Saskatoon!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| Orpik got 3 for his, but that was pre-lockout so I don't know if it has any precedent. I also don't know if Orpik had any history of dirty hits prior to that, but he certainly has a rep for it now. I think this hit was more avoidable, so I guess we'll see what, if anything, the league hands down. |
Orpik was post-lockout, in the 2005-06 season.
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"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3215
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| saskhab wrote: |
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| Orpik got 3 for his, but that was pre-lockout so I don't know if it has any precedent. I also don't know if Orpik had any history of dirty hits prior to that, but he certainly has a rep for it now. I think this hit was more avoidable, so I guess we'll see what, if anything, the league hands down. |
Orpik was post-lockout, in the 2005-06 season. |
Yeah you're right, I just checked that a few minutes ago.
2 games certainly isn't surprising.
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harmfuljays
King of Men
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1259
Location: Djibouti
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Spiraling out of control...........now we have suspensions for legal hits......f'n ridiculous. Its a league of nancies.
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saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3413
Location: Saskatoon!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| harmfuljays wrote: |
| Spiraling out of control...........now we have suspensions for legal hits......f'n ridiculous. Its a league of nancies. |
What the hell is legal about a blatant hit from behind?
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"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
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harmfuljays
King of Men
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1259
Location: Djibouti
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hey I know its what you all want. A league of f'n daisies out there.
Jones lined him up and finished his check. Jones is coming up beside him and has him lined up. Bergeron does actually turn into the oncoming check of Jones. Jones follows through with the check.
Watch it at full speed....not the made for ESPN Drama in slow speed.
I'd rather see a team out there finishing checks then wondering about a suspension every time they go to hit. I don't like the direction that this is heading. Its hockey and sometimes people get hurt when they get hit. Split second decisions on skates on a sheet of ice are a lot harder to make.
I don't agree with the suspension. He served his time in the box.
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Caniac Chuck
Curator of the Dog Park
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 268
Location: Greensboro, NC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Two games is fair. Everybody that gets a boarding major should be suspended for 2 games minimum now.
On the other hand i agree with Harmy!
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saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3413
Location: Saskatoon!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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If he turned, it should be more visible in slow mo than not. 
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071028.maki29/GSStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home
| Quote: |
“Every coach expects you to finish your check,” said Ference. “But [Jones] has to realize when guys are vulnerable. [Bergeron] wasn't in a position to score. He was keeping the puck in [after it had been dumped behind the Boston net].”
What about the speed of today's game and how bad things can happen in the blink of an eye?
“Look at the number of guys who have played eight, nine, 10 years and have never had an incident like that,” Ference argued. “Even in the heat of the game, you have time to make decisions. That's what we're good at – thinking quickly.” |
Ference is bang on. These guys are paid to think the game at a very fast pace, so why is it wrong to punish people for making terrible decisions at that same fast pace?
Look man, hitting from behind is penalized right from the time hitting is allowed in minor hockey (ages 12-14 generally). Hits from behind have been suspended by the NHL in the past. This isn't new. These guys know what a legal hit is and what isn't.
These hits have lasting effects. Everyone knows this. Gretzky was never as dominant after Gary Suter plowed him from behind in 1991.
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"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
- Mark Corrigan, Peep Show |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3215
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| harmfuljays wrote: |
Hey I know its what you all want. A league of f'n daisies out there.
Jones lined him up and finished his check. Jones is coming up beside him and has him lined up. Bergeron does actually turn into the oncoming check of Jones. Jones follows through with the check.
Watch it at full speed....not the made for ESPN Drama in slow speed.
I'd rather see a team out there finishing checks then wondering about a suspension every time they go to hit. I don't like the direction that this is heading. Its hockey and sometimes people get hurt when they get hit. Split second decisions on skates on a sheet of ice are a lot harder to make.
I don't agree with the suspension. He served his time in the box. |
3 of my favorite players are Volchenkov, Kronwall and Morrow, who are some of the best open-ice hitters in the league. I love open ice hits, hip checks and big hits along the boards.
However, Jones had a complete view of Bergeron's back before he hit him. That's when you don't hit someone. That's hitting from behind, not finishing a check. When a guy turns into it, then it can be a tough call. This one wasn't. Bergeron turned way before Jones had to make a decision. He still made the decision to drill him from behind. You can't make a decision to hit someone on the expectation that they'll turn so that you won't hit them from behind.
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the New Cunning Linguist
Like a good neighbor, but not
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1664
Location: I'm here, aren't I?
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| saskhab wrote: |
| Gretzky was never as dominant after Gary Suter plowed him from behind in 1991. |
That sounds like all kinds of wrong without the context.
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1990
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| harmfuljays wrote: |
Hey I know its what you all want. A league of f'n daisies out there.
Jones lined him up and finished his check. Jones is coming up beside him and has him lined up. Bergeron does actually turn into the oncoming check of Jones. Jones follows through with the check.
Watch it at full speed....not the made for ESPN Drama in slow speed.
I'd rather see a team out there finishing checks then wondering about a suspension every time they go to hit. I don't like the direction that this is heading. Its hockey and sometimes people get hurt when they get hit. Split second decisions on skates on a sheet of ice are a lot harder to make.
I don't agree with the suspension. He served his time in the box. |
You can bitch all you want Jay, but I'm here to tell you a blatant hit from behind has never been legal at any time in any league at any level. So don't go getting all over the NHL brass over this one, it's a fundamental rule of hockey contact and you of all people should know that. |
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