 |
 |
Offthepost (Generation II)
ATTENTION: OFFTHEPOST.NET NO LONGER EXISTS AS A URL. The old site had to be closed. Please reset your bookmarks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Grgecko
Drunken Lout
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 115
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| E.L. wrote: |
You can't bring back Sundin and deal everyone else.
The NMC clause players will want to stick around.
You risk not finishing in the bottom-5 and getting good young players.
Sundin still holds too much clout with management and the locker room - the future young stars won't have a chance to prove themselves without hiding behind their captain.
It sends a mixed message to fans.
I can't think of a precedent case, where the aging star player stuck around while the team underwent a successful rebuilding process. |
You know, I think these are all pretty much good points, and I can't really disagree on any particular point, but at the same time I think everyone has to remember that "Cliffy" is an interum GM. His job is not to rebuild the team, or even start the rebuilding process. His job is to undo as much of JFJ's damage as possible in the short term, and give the incoming GM the best value-per-assist ratio-and therefore the most options-possible. If that means signing Mats for a short-term contract and a reasonable rate, I think that is an okay move with me. I Definately think finding out what Mats plans to do IS a big part of Fletcher's job, and the fact is if the big swede doesn't want to play with us but does have a few specific clubs in mind, we might be able to get at least some token return for trading his rights to one of those clubs just so they can get a head start on negotiatons.
Actually, come to think of it, I do disagree with the particular point about he "mixed message to the fans". The main thing Leaf ownership has to realize about the fans is that we are going to keep buying the merchandise and paying for the tickets no matter what happens, so they can safely just ignore us entirely and make decisions that make good hockey sense in the long term.
I read somewhere that the reason Vesa Toskala is not insane yet is because he watches no North American TV or listens to any NA radio- he just listens to Finish radio on the internet in his spare time. Ownership and management should take heed of that attitiude.
| av-merican wrote: |
| Right now the "young core" of this team is pretty blah...I see Jiri "TMI" Tlusty, Kyle Wellwood, Ragin' Stajan, Alex Steen, and Carlo Concussionaivo. |
I've been thinking about our "young core" alot too, and I kind of see things as being fairly middle of the road- not great, not terrible. Here are my very verbose thoughts:
Hounsy might rightly make a quip about us Icing 4 3rd lines in the future, but I really like both Steen and Stajan- they are very versitile players, who can score a bit, check a bit, play in all situations, and never hurt the line they are on, whether it is the 1st line or the 4th line. In short, they are perfect cap world players, and there is a reason there was alot of interest in them at the deadline. Personally, while a lot of pundits disagree, I think one of Cliff's best moves was to extend Steen's contract now, when he is having a bit of an off year, and thereby making sure the incoming GM has him in the relatively long term at a relatively good value, especially if the cap heads northward as much as expected.
Carlo C is a very good, well rounded defenseman when healthy, and he is hurt all the damn time so we don't need to worry about ever having to pay him like a good, well rounded defenseman. So we can't rely on his presence in the lineup, but he is never going to be an albatross around our neck either. Not a saviour, but at least in every way a plus to the team.
Kyle Wellwood will be given a second chance next year to see if his play this year was due to injuries or due to attitude. If the latter is a problem, then I am very disappointed, because I really though he was going to be a present surprise for us, maybe an eventual building block.
Jiri Thirsty (damn I love Don Cherry) is probably being rushed into prime time too early, but right now to me he looks like a next gen Sergei Berezin (a second line sniper who gets some goals but is always on the minus side of plus minus) or a career AHLer. Either way he is not really anything we can build around.
Anyway, like I said, I've been rumminating lately and kind of wanted to trype out my thoughts; sorry for the lengthy post.
_________________
(Working in a Call Centre) + (Being a Leafs Fan) = (One HUGE glutton for punishment)
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1451
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Tlusty and Steen could be quality second liners. Stralman could be a quality offensive second pairing D-man. But really I see nothing first line or pairing in the Leaf prospects let alone impact potential outside of Pogge and being a goalie you just never know if that will pan out.
_________________
It's not you Sundin, it's me...please just leave...and don't look back....please please do not look back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3428
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grgecko wrote: |
Jiri Thirsty (damn I love Don Cherry) is probably being rushed into prime time too early, but right now to me he looks like a next gen Sergei Berezin (a second line sniper who gets some goals but is always on the minus side of plus minus) or a career AHLer. Either way he is not really anything we can build around.
Anyway, like I said, I've been rumminating lately and kind of wanted to trype out my thoughts; sorry for the lengthy post. |
The problem with Tlusty is not with Tlusty himself. It's general fan expectations that they have with most propects. They expect them to step in and immediately become the player that they have the potential to be. With Tlusty, 30-goal scorer or whatever. "Bring up Rask and let him be the starter." "Bring up Pogge and let him start". Antropov serves as an example, albeit a long, slow, oft-injured one. It takes a while for guys to grow into their role. You can't take em out of junior and expect them to immediately be the guy that they should become over 5 years. Steen and Stajan came in and contributed immediately, probably more than they were expected to. All of the sudden, when they slump(or in their cases, idiot goes out and gets Jason Allison and Eric Lindros and Peca instead of giving them proper ice time to develop - but again, direction from ownership), the fans are all over them to trade them. It takes time for these guys to develop, and they'll hit bumps in the road. It happens. But I think for so many they believe that they'll rebuild in 2-3 years after 2 drafts and the guys will immediately come out of junior and make an impact and bring the Leafs back into the playoffs.
And to all of the Leafs fans on here, I'm not trying to lump you guys in with the general fanbase here, because you don't give off the same impression that I get from most of the people in TO. Stralman scores a highlight-reel goal and all of the sudden he should be putting up 50 points a year.
_________________
Bring back the old OTP!
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
BLUENECK
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 177
Location: NECKOSLOVAKIA, VT
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Never been a fan on Tlusty. Frankly I dont see his upside.
I had hopes for Steen but dunno...I could do without him.
Strahlman I think could be a decent blueliner that doesn't break the bank.
Carlo just breaks-get rid of his ass.
I like Stajan cause hes a two way player-I envision him sord of like a poor mans John Madden.
As for Wellwood I'm sick of saying this willbe the year he breaks out or gets it together. Thinking he may have been a tad over rated.
I will always have the loyalty to Mats whatever he wants to do is fine as long as it doesn't handcuff the Leafs making the moves for the future.
Get rid of McCabe, Tucker, Blake, Antro, Ponk, etc.
If it were me I would clean house for some youth cept for Stajan, Sundin, Vesa, and Kaberle (although I would 86 him if the deal was comporable value).
Read my lips, NO MORE NO TRADE CLAUSES! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1792
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'd rather ditch the expensive vets, have another year of awfulness, and snag Tavares... That would be my plan... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3428
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| razzmatazz wrote: |
| I'd rather ditch the expensive vets, have another year of awfulness, and snag Tavares... That would be my plan... |
Obviously far easier said than done.
_________________
Bring back the old OTP!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2304
Location: Denver
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3777
Location: Saskatoon!
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
While you can have fun at the idea at acquiring a 33 year old grinder for a draft pick when you're rebuilding, the fact is they do need some element of new blood and leadership on that team.
But I don't know why they'd bring back Mats at this point. I assume it's just to show some class to the guy if he really wants to retire a Leaf. But if he wants to retire a Leaf... he really should just retire right now and not bother playing another year.
_________________
"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
- Mark Corrigan, Peep Show |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2304
Location: Denver
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| saskhab wrote: |
While you can have fun at the idea at acquiring a 33 year old grinder for a draft pick when you're rebuilding, the fact is they do need some element of new blood and leadership on that team.
But I don't know why they'd bring back Mats at this point. I assume it's just to show some class to the guy if he really wants to retire a Leaf. But if he wants to retire a Leaf... he really should just retire right now and not bother playing another year. |
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/449468
Cliffy says the Leafs will indeed pursue free agents, but no one over the age of 30, and I'm assuming he's lumping Mats in that pool as well.
And it should be noted that he's smarter than Kevin Lowe and scoffed at the notion of pursuing RFAs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1752
Location: Fuck tha MTL police
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Av-merican wrote: |
| And it should be noted that he's smarter than Kevin Lowe and scoffed at the notion of pursuing RFAs. |
I don't think it's about being smarter than KLowe, it's just that the Leafs really need those draft picks.
_________________
It seems like you need to be a physics professor to choose the right TV. Luckily, I am one.
  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3777
Location: Saskatoon!
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lowe at least had some good prospects stockpiled when he went after RFA's. Cliffy knows he doesn't have that kind of stockpile.
_________________
"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
- Mark Corrigan, Peep Show |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1451
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
One thing that comes to mind with the vet depth help that Cliff seems to be adding with trading mid round picks is would these players this deadline or next offer as much in return as the Leafs are giving up now? we need to play someone right? and I'd rather play depth guys that can be moved for more mid-rounders than career AHL'ers just killing ice time. Just thinking what we moved Kilger, Gill, and Belak for and trying to add another possible positive spin on the current direction as we Quest towards a top two pick.
_________________
It's not you Sundin, it's me...please just leave...and don't look back....please please do not look back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
