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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1359
Location: Finger?
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 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:13 am Post subject: Forbes' most valuable team$ |
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2007/11/08/leafs_value/
Forbes' franchise value list is back yet again, and the league made 96 million bucks last year. Most of the teams increased in value.
1. Leafs 413M
2. Rags 365M
3. Wings 293M
4. Habs 283M
...
(Tie) 30. Saskatoon Beer League Senior Men's Team 143M
(Tie) 30. Crashville 143M (a full 100M less than Jim Balsillie was willing to pay, mind you)
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DH
Lloyd's Minster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 320
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Jesus. If the average value is approx $180M then the value of 30 teams is $5.4B.
$96M / $5.4B = 1.8% return on assets. That's a shitty investment at best.
I think these franchise "values" are grossly overinflated. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 2930
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DH wrote: |
$96M / $5.4B = 1.8% return on assets. That's a shitty investment at best.
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With the exception of the Leafs and a couple of different franchises over the past 10 years, yearly profits are not how the teams count on making money. Franchise fees are coins in the owners pockets and the increase in value of franchises over the past 20 years is what they count on.
| Quote: |
| I think these franchise "values" are grossly overinflated. |
You can thank Ballsillie for that.
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Stinky
Woman of Color of the Post
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Leafs are worth almost 50 mil more than the rags?
I'll tell my wife her pension is looking good... 
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DH
Lloyd's Minster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 320
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| DH wrote: |
$96M / $5.4B = 1.8% return on assets. That's a shitty investment at best.
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Franchise fees are coins in the owners pockets and the increase in value of franchises over the past 20 years is what they count on.
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Franchise fees are almost negligible given how infrequently it occurs, and it probably doesn't even add a decimal point to the return on the investment once it's spread amongst 30 teams.
Counting on an increase in value without an increase in the underlying cash flow is nothing more than the game of greater fools. ie. hope someone is dumb enough to pay more than you paid. These games go on until the bubble bursts. History is full of examples.
My bottom line is that buying an NHL franchise today would be a horrible investment choice. |
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Stinky
Woman of Color of the Post
Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| DH wrote: |
My bottom line is that buying an NHL franchise today would be a horrible investment choice. |
I think for most who own sports teams, they really aren't that worried about that particular investment...
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The crowd once again showed its IQ level when it shouted ``U-S-A, U-S-A,'' during the fight. Their hero, Downie, is from Newmarket, Ont. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 2930
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| DH wrote: |
| Franchise fees are almost negligible given how infrequently it occurs, and it probably doesn't even add a decimal point to the return on the investment once it's spread amongst 30 teams. |
Yeah, it's not a factor anymore now that expansion hasn't occurred for a while
| Quote: |
Counting on an increase in value without an increase in the underlying cash flow is nothing more than the game of greater fools. ie. hope someone is dumb enough to pay more than you paid. These games go on until the bubble bursts. History is full of examples.
My bottom line is that buying an NHL franchise today would be a horrible investment choice. |
You're right on both counts. But the franchise value increase is still how many owners counted on making dough(and like you said, many are fools in how they run their team, the leader they've chosen, etc..).
The NHL is not a normal business. Buying into a franchise to expect a high return on assets is definitely horrible investment choice and everyone knows it.
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 382
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Can someone please explain to me how Toronto got to the top if the list?
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No one can make you feel inferior without your permission. |
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Captain Chaos
(Formerly Lieutenant Chaos)
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| Lillith wrote: |
| Can someone please explain to me how Toronto got to the top if the list? |
With better business skills than hockey skills. |
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Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 997
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Chaos wrote: |
| Lillith wrote: |
| Can someone please explain to me how Toronto got to the top if the list? |
With better business skills than hockey skills. |
Luck of the draw in having the biggest Hockey market helps.
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psssssssssssssshhh....bing bong ping bong bing bong...pssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 2930
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Lillith wrote: |
| Can someone please explain to me how Toronto got to the top if the list? |
They sell out no matter how badly they do, they can charge whatever the hell they want for tickets, and they make the most money. And like Hounsy said, having the biggest hocket market helps.
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1359
Location: Finger?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| Lillith wrote: |
| Can someone please explain to me how Toronto got to the top if the list? |
They sell out no matter how badly they do, they can charge whatever the hell they want for tickets, and they make the most money. And like Hounsy said, having the biggest hocket market helps. |
That and the Leafs TV cable network is a cash cow. If you want to delve deeper, having complete ownership of the Raptors, which is also a successful franchise, helps a lot.
The Habs have a monstrously good cable deal, and the Bell Centre is the most frequented arena in North America. (it's so busy the UFC couldn't even schedule a fight here). In a couple of years we'll need another arena just to fit in all the events. BTW, George Gillet owns the entertainment group that books all these events (GEG), and that's likely a more profitable venture than the Habs.
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 2930
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| E.L. wrote: |
The Habs have a monstrously good cable deal, and the Bell Centre is the most frequented arena in North America. (it's so busy the UFC couldn't even schedule a fight here). In a couple of years we'll need another arena just to fit in all the events. BTW, George Gillet owns the entertainment group that books all these events (GEG), and that's likely a more profitable venture than the Habs. |
Don't the Habs have by far the worst rent/lease deal in the NHL? Or was that in the old barn?
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1359
Location: Finger?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| Don't the Habs have by far the worst rent/lease deal in the NHL? Or was that in the old barn? |
They pay about 25M a year in rent. It's bad when you consider nearly everyone else pays 0, but it's pretty negligiable when the team/arena/TV deal combo is worth over 400M (if Gillett were ever to sell the package).
A far cry when he paid 185 US for the team, and needed a no-interest loan from la caisse pop to do it.
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Lillith
Forum Witch
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 382
Location: Second Star to the Right
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: |
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[quote="E.L."]
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| Lillith wrote: |
| Can someone please explain to me how Toronto got to the top if the list? |
They sell out no matter how badly they do, they can charge whatever the hell they want for tickets, and they make the most money. And like Hounsy said, having the biggest hocket market helps.
That and the Leafs TV cable network is a cash cow. If you want to delve deeper, having complete ownership of the Raptors, which is also a successful franchise, helps a lot. |
OK, I get it. I can also see why most of you would like to see an expansion team in Southern Onterio. I (little me..moi) can buy not so bad tickets to a Red Wings game this year. Actually, I'm waiting for RW to invite me to a game when his partner in crime is out of town!
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