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Offthepost (Generation II)
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Alabama Man
Now with 30% more rage!
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 627
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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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They took er job!!!!!!!!
Call it the end of an era. Sherwood-Drolet, the Quebec-based manufacturer of wooden hockey sticks for nearly 60 years, in January will abandon virtually all its woodworking, and will outsource the manufacture of the sticks to Estonia and China according to a report in the Boston Globe.
Meanwhile, the Sherbrooke shop will devote its full attention to the much pricier composite sticks. Guy Lafleur called one-piece sticks as "crap," adding, "What does an extra 20 miles an hour matter when the puck goes 50 feet wide of the net?"
A Toronto Star story reported that the company will still manufacture Jason Spezza's wooden stick in-house, and that only some 5 percent of NHL players still use wooden sticks.
Source: Boston Globe
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shoe
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Base of Pikes Peak
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| THE GODFATHER OF LOVE wrote: |
Call it the end of an era. Sherwood-Drolet in January will abandon virtually all its woodworking, and will outsource the manufacture of the sticks to Estonia and China according to a report in the Boston Globe.
Source: Boston Globe |
And in February all the sticks will be recalled due to excess lead in the paint. 
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Winston Churchill said, "most people occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and continue on as if nothing had ever happened". |
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Bell Centre Ghost
Haunting the Bell Centre since 2005
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Guelph
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| THE GODFATHER OF LOVE wrote: |
| "What does an extra 20 miles an hour matter when the puck goes 50 feet wide of the net?" |
If it only went to the net. I'm sick of the broken sticks all over the place. You have to wonder what the differential is between goals scored due to increased speed and goals not scored for not getting the shot off, poor accuracy, and lets throw in turnovers due to loss of control of the puck.
More importantly, it ruins some potentially very exciting plays.
_________________
The fans represent the soul of the organization. This is their team. Us, we simply try to make it better. They tell us when things are going good, and when they are less so. We don't always give them the impression that we are listening, but we are. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3202
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
| THE GODFATHER OF LOVE wrote: |
| "What does an extra 20 miles an hour matter when the puck goes 50 feet wide of the net?" |
If it only went to the net. I'm sick of the broken sticks all over the place. You have to wonder what the differential is between goals scored due to increased speed and goals not scored for not getting the shot off, poor accuracy, and lets throw in turnovers due to loss of control of the puck.
More importantly, it ruins some potentially very exciting plays. |
These guys know their gear. They get used to handling the composites. If the composites were that terrible and really had the effects that everyone says they do, they simply wouldn't use them.
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DH
Lloyd's Minster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| These guys know their gear. They get used to handling the composites. If the composites were that terrible and really had the effects that everyone says they do, they simply wouldn't use them. |
As usual, the simplest answer is probably the right one.
If the payoff wasn't there, the players wouldn't use them and the coaches wouldn't let the players use them. |
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saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3359
Location: Saskatoon!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: |
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And there are WAY less broken blades on the ice now than a few years back when they were fairly new.
I don't know why you'd buy one for a pickup league, but hey, it's the consumer's choice. If I had a kid, I'd invest in better skates and other equipment before shelling out extra dough on the composites. If he was playing at a fairly high level and was a bit older, I'd start to consider the investment, though.
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"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
- Mark Corrigan, Peep Show |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3202
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| RIDERS RULE!!!!!! RIDERS wrote: |
And there are WAY less broken blades on the ice now than a few years back when they were fairly new.
I don't know why you'd buy one for a pickup league, but hey, it's the consumer's choice. If I had a kid, I'd invest in better skates and other equipment before shelling out extra dough on the composites. If he was playing at a fairly high level and was a bit older, I'd start to consider the investment, though. |
I would do the same for a kid. Find a great pair of skates that fit. Kids aren't strong enough to bend the things, let alone snap one with a hard clapper.
Beer league? I like mine, it's light as hell, and it's lasted me longer than woods ever would. Cost me the same as my skates, and I love my skates 
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Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1212
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Beer leaguers rarely break the things on a shot, the odd time one gets caught on a door, along the dasher etc. but other than that for beer league guys the things last a long time off setting the cost, well that is the feedback I get from some of the guys. Oh, and the rare few that can "load" the shaft will buy them even after they break because they do get performance gain. But as Bosc said if they didn't work for the Pro's the players would not use them, simple as that.
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It's not you Sundin, it's me...please just leave...and don't look back....please please do not look back. |
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Bell Centre Ghost
Haunting the Bell Centre since 2005
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Guelph
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
These guys know their gear. They get used to handling the composites. If the composites were that terrible and really had the effects that everyone says they do, they simply wouldn't use them. |
This is also the same group that was slow to use goalie masks, slow to use helmets, and are slow to use visors - all under the illusion that it would hurt their play. Player preference isn't the best way to judge for me.
I'm just going from what I see, granted, and it does make me wonder....
_________________
The fans represent the soul of the organization. This is their team. Us, we simply try to make it better. They tell us when things are going good, and when they are less so. We don't always give them the impression that we are listening, but we are. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3202
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
These guys know their gear. They get used to handling the composites. If the composites were that terrible and really had the effects that everyone says they do, they simply wouldn't use them. |
This is also the same group that was slow to use goalie masks, slow to use helmets, and are slow to use visors - all under the illusion that it would hurt their play. Player preference isn't the best way to judge for me.
I'm just going from what I see, granted, and it does make me wonder.... |
That's slow to adapt to new safety technology. This is jumping on new technology that has nothing to do with safety, so I wouldn't say that the comparison is a fair one...
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Bell Centre Ghost
Haunting the Bell Centre since 2005
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Guelph
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
These guys know their gear. They get used to handling the composites. If the composites were that terrible and really had the effects that everyone says they do, they simply wouldn't use them. |
This is also the same group that was slow to use goalie masks, slow to use helmets, and are slow to use visors - all under the illusion that it would hurt their play. Player preference isn't the best way to judge for me.
I'm just going from what I see, granted, and it does make me wonder.... |
That's slow to adapt to new safety technology. This is jumping on new technology that has nothing to do with safety, so I wouldn't say that the comparison is a fair one... |
I would. It's about their accuracy in judging how equipment effects the effectiveness of their game play.
_________________
The fans represent the soul of the organization. This is their team. Us, we simply try to make it better. They tell us when things are going good, and when they are less so. We don't always give them the impression that we are listening, but we are. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3202
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
These guys know their gear. They get used to handling the composites. If the composites were that terrible and really had the effects that everyone says they do, they simply wouldn't use them. |
This is also the same group that was slow to use goalie masks, slow to use helmets, and are slow to use visors - all under the illusion that it would hurt their play. Player preference isn't the best way to judge for me.
I'm just going from what I see, granted, and it does make me wonder.... |
That's slow to adapt to new safety technology. This is jumping on new technology that has nothing to do with safety, so I wouldn't say that the comparison is a fair one... |
I would. It's about their accuracy in judging how equipment effects the effectiveness of their game play. |
Come on Sam. You're comparing refusal to wear a helmet or mask 30+ years ago to everyone using brand new stick technology today. A bonnet on your head is completely different than the tool that you use to do almost everything that wins a game on the ice. You don't think the fact that they use these sticks for hours upon hours every day of the week and they've been playing this game for their entire life affects their decision on which ones to use? You really think that because 30+ years ago they didn't use helmets and masks, that automatically makes the judgement of pretty much every player across the entire league over the past few years a bad one or the wrong choice?
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Bell Centre Ghost
Haunting the Bell Centre since 2005
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Guelph
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
These guys know their gear. They get used to handling the composites. If the composites were that terrible and really had the effects that everyone says they do, they simply wouldn't use them. |
This is also the same group that was slow to use goalie masks, slow to use helmets, and are slow to use visors - all under the illusion that it would hurt their play. Player preference isn't the best way to judge for me.
I'm just going from what I see, granted, and it does make me wonder.... |
That's slow to adapt to new safety technology. This is jumping on new technology that has nothing to do with safety, so I wouldn't say that the comparison is a fair one... |
I would. It's about their accuracy in judging how equipment effects the effectiveness of their game play. |
Come on Sam. You're comparing refusal to wear a helmet or mask 30+ years ago to everyone using brand new stick technology today. A bonnet on your head is completely different than the tool that you use to do almost everything that wins a game on the ice. You don't think the fact that they use these sticks for hours upon hours every day of the week and they've been playing this game for their entire life affects their decision on which ones to use? You really think that because 30+ years ago they didn't use helmets and masks, that automatically makes the judgement of pretty much every player across the entire league over the past few years a bad one or the wrong choice? |
What I'm saying is really two things, Bosc. One is that in the modern, it may be the case that players think that new and faster is better. In other words, because composite sticks shoot the puck faster and is a new thing (which is a NHL theme), it is something that is to be a priori preferred. The second thing, once the first has occurred - or once the sticks have been a priori accepted as "better" - is the players' inability to judge whether that change actually helps or hinders their game. I don't think players have a good track record in judging how equipment effects their game.
Another possibility on why the sticks were readily accepted by the players is that the era when the sticks gained popularity was also the era of the clutch and grab. So getting a quick, hard shot off was important since you didn't have much time to do so. However, now that the game has opened up, I wonder if it still serves its effectiveness given its greater tendency to break on the slap shot vs. wooden sticks.
Wow - this academic stuff is really affecting how I write, lol.
_________________
The fans represent the soul of the organization. This is their team. Us, we simply try to make it better. They tell us when things are going good, and when they are less so. We don't always give them the impression that we are listening, but we are. |
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saskhab
'03-'04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 3359
Location: Saskatoon!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, aren't they being uncharacteristically quick to adapt to this new technology/innovation in the game? They were slow to adapt to goalie masks, helmets, and currently visors, but were very quick to adapt to composites.
_________________
"Oh my God. There she is. Lovely Sally Slater. I should speak to her. But what the hell can I say? Anything that doesn't mention that I masturbate over her memory is probably a good idea."
- Mark Corrigan, Peep Show |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3202
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
What I'm saying is really two things, Bosc. One is that in the modern, it may be the case that players think that new and faster is better. In other words, because composite sticks shoot the puck faster and is a new thing (which is a NHL theme), it is something that is to be a priori preferred. The second thing, once the first has occurred - or once the sticks have been a priori accepted as "better" - is the players' inability to judge whether that change actually helps or hinders their game. I don't think players have a good track record in judging how equipment effects their game.
Another possibility on why the sticks were readily accepted by the players is that the era when the sticks gained popularity was also the era of the clutch and grab. So getting a quick, hard shot off was important since you didn't have much time to do so. However, now that the game has opened up, I wonder if it still serves its effectiveness given its greater tendency to break on the slap shot vs. wooden sticks.
Wow - this academic stuff is really affecting how I write, lol. |
Well, you make good points Sam, I just don't quite agree with them 
Faster might be better, but think of all the facets of the game that are affected by the stick. Shooting hard is just one of them, but how many shots does the average player take in a game? 3 maybe? How many times do they touch the puck? How many times do they take a pass, make a pass, or handle the puck? There is a lot more to the stick than simply taking the shot. And again, I disagree that their record in judging equipment simply isn't good. When something has been advantageous, they've been quick to jump all over it. Look at all of the technology that has improved in all facets of the game, and how quickly players were to jump on it. They've always worked with the manufacturers to improve it too. Should everyone be wearing Mario Gosselin Chest/Arms like Legace does because they're smaller and lighter and every goalie is worse off for wearing ones that aren't 25 years old, and are bigger but just as light and way more protective? The helmet and mask one is a completely different story because it was also taboo to wear one. The league was far smaller, players were simply cattle for the owners and threats of getting benched or sent to the minors for wearing one had a ton of weight. You'd get smoked in the head on the ice too. It was a different time and a different period, and certainly far different technology. You can't use that as a simple all-encompassing statement to say that they have poor judgement in deciding in what equipment helps or hurts their game.
Your second point is interesting, but I still think that these guys know their gear. If it wasn't good for their game to use em, they wouldn't be. Also, ya gotta stop buying into the myth that these things break more than wood sticks. They break more spectacularly, but they certainly don't break more. They last longer, they aren't useless after 2 or 3 hard shots, and they have a consistent feel for nearly an entire game. You don't have to keep switching sticks to find one with the right stiffness. Not to mention they're a hell of a lot lighter.
In the end, I'll trust that the guys doing everything they can to win the game and using a piece of wood/aluminum/composite to do so, can judge what's best for their game. They're the ones playing it at the highest level for hours every day. A safety issue like helmets, visors, masks etc. is far more debatable. But for a stick? To me, until we've stepped into their shoes I'm not going to criticize their judgement on what stick is best for their game.
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Hounsy
Reigning King of One-Liners
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1212
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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With the kinda money = performance equation NHL'ers have on their hands and the general acceptance of technology as a performance enhancer across the board things are very different than they where thirty years ago.
One thing I will say is that when a composite goes it really goes and you can't miss it on TV where when a Twig bites it often you wouldn't see it and just think the guy fanned on the shot.
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It's not you Sundin, it's me...please just leave...and don't look back....please please do not look back. |
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Bell Centre Ghost
Haunting the Bell Centre since 2005
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Guelph
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
Well, you make good points Sam, I just don't quite agree with them
Faster might be better, but think of all the facets of the game that are affected by the stick. Shooting hard is just one of them, but how many shots does the average player take in a game? 3 maybe? How many times do they touch the puck? How many times do they take a pass, make a pass, or handle the puck? There is a lot more to the stick than simply taking the shot. And again, I disagree that their record in judging equipment simply isn't good. When something has been advantageous, they've been quick to jump all over it. Look at all of the technology that has improved in all facets of the game, and how quickly players were to jump on it. They've always worked with the manufacturers to improve it too. Should everyone be wearing Mario Gosselin Chest/Arms like Legace does because they're smaller and lighter and every goalie is worse off for wearing ones that aren't 25 years old, and are bigger but just as light and way more protective? The helmet and mask one is a completely different story because it was also taboo to wear one. The league was far smaller, players were simply cattle for the owners and threats of getting benched or sent to the minors for wearing one had a ton of weight. You'd get smoked in the head on the ice too. It was a different time and a different period, and certainly far different technology. You can't use that as a simple all-encompassing statement to say that they have poor judgement in deciding in what equipment helps or hurts their game.
Your second point is interesting, but I still think that these guys know their gear. If it wasn't good for their game to use em, they wouldn't be. Also, ya gotta stop buying into the myth that these things break more than wood sticks. They break more spectacularly, but they certainly don't break more. They last longer, they aren't useless after 2 or 3 hard shots, and they have a consistent feel for nearly an entire game. You don't have to keep switching sticks to find one with the right stiffness. Not to mention they're a hell of a lot lighter.
In the end, I'll trust that the guys doing everything they can to win the game and using a piece of wood/aluminum/composite to do so, can judge what's best for their game. They're the ones playing it at the highest level for hours every day. A safety issue like helmets, visors, masks etc. is far more debatable. But for a stick? To me, until we've stepped into their shoes I'm not going to criticize their judgement on what stick is best for their game. |
I'm not likely to ever accept that just because players like it, it must be more effective. But your point about composite sticks being effective until they break vs. wood's microfractures and inconsistencies is well taken Jeff. It seems like an advantage to have a stick be consistently effective until it is not.
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The fans represent the soul of the organization. This is their team. Us, we simply try to make it better. They tell us when things are going good, and when they are less so. We don't always give them the impression that we are listening, but we are. |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3202
Location: Sweetest lid in the league
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
I'm not likely to ever accept that just because players like it, it must be more effective. |
I guess what it boils down to for me is that until I've played a significant amount of hockey in the skates of each of the 800 guys playing in the NHL, who am I to judge what stick composition/weight/curve/lie/tape job would be the most effective for what each guy does on the ice?
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Bell Centre Ghost
Haunting the Bell Centre since 2005
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 537
Location: Guelph
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: AFTER 60 YRS, SHERWOOD CLOSES THE DOORS |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
| brownjesus rises again wrote: |
I'm not likely to ever accept that just because players like it, it must be more effective. |
I guess what it boils down to for me is that until I've played a significant amount of hockey in the skates of each of the 800 guys playing in the NHL, who am I to judge what stick composition/weight/curve/lie/tape job would be the most effective for what each guy does on the ice? |
Most definitely the players are more of an authority than me. I was thinking about effectiveness from the viewpoint on whether these sticks have actually resulted in more/less or the same number of goals being scored.
btw - in the OTT/BUF game on TSN - they mentioned that Spezza won't be able to use wooden sticks any more, but as noted, the article clearly states that they'll be doing his sticks "in-house". Ahhh sports announcers/reporters. They always make me feel smart,
_________________
The fans represent the soul of the organization. This is their team. Us, we simply try to make it better. They tell us when things are going good, and when they are less so. We don't always give them the impression that we are listening, but we are. |
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