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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1409
Location: Stuntin' like my daddy
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Santa Butch wrote: |
It doesn't look like Baltimore got squat in this deal .... Who are these guys anyway!?
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Meh.
Troy Patton is the prize: a left-handed starter who could be ready to start this season.
If I were the O's I'd flip Luke Scott for another prospect or two, since he's kinda old.
I've seen Albers pitch before, and he looked in over his head. He's young, and might become a decent starter.
The other two guys are meh.
This trade was quantity over quality. No Maybin's in this bunch.
I think it means Bedard and Roberts will go. Let the firesale begin!
_________________
John McCain is fit as a fiddle… Is 71 the new 30?” - Fox News' Rich Lowry
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1746
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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What is this, fire sale #6 or #7 for Angelos?
He'd be better off selling tickets to watch Kris Benson's ex strip. |
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1409
Location: Stuntin' like my daddy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Giants signed Rowand. You heard it here first.
I'm going to go puke.
_________________
John McCain is fit as a fiddle… Is 71 the new 30?” - Fox News' Rich Lowry
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3006
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Throw Some E's wrote: |
Giants signed Rowand. You heard it here first.
I'm going to go puke. |
5 years, $60 million.
http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=225024&hubname=
At 30, at least he cut their average age in half.
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hipcheck
Wears red stockings
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 462
Location: The Box
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity, is Fukudome that much better than Rowand?
They are the same age, and got the same money(avg.)
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I'm a Bruins fan - don't try to confuse me with the facts |
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1409
Location: Stuntin' like my daddy
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| hipcheck wrote: |
Out of curiosity, is Fukudome that much better than Rowand?
They are the same age, and got the same money(avg.) |
Great question, and I understand why it might seem strange why I actively promote the signing of one 30-year old old fielder and vomit and the signing of another (which I admit was a bit extreme, I think Rowand is a decent player).
Rowand had a career year of 27 homers and a .515 Slugging Percentage in 2007. In 2006 and 2005 he hit 25 homers COMBINED. He's moving from a potent lineup in a hitters ballpark to a pitchers paradise and a terrible lineup, meaning he could recede to his 2006/2005 totals.
His defence is outstanding, but who knows how long he can play CF, especially when you consider his reckless style of play? I think he can be a positive influence too, but they said that about Zito and he's kind of a jerkoff.
Giants need a power bat, something Rowand doesn't provide, and they very much need an OBP guy, and Rowand strikes out too much and isn't very patient at the plate. Fukudome is unknown, but patience tends to translate well and he's projected to be a .370 OBP minimum, which Rowand was only in his contract year.
To me, Rowand is Randy Winn with less speed and a better arm. I would have preferred moving Winn to CF, put Fukudome (and his cannon arm) in RF and try Schierholtz/Davis in LF. Now there's talk about giving Roberts a starting spot and trading the young OFers who deserved a chance to play in 2008.
He's an alright player, but he doesn't solve any of the team's problems. 1B and 3B remain major holes, and the Giants marquee signing only messes things up further.
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John McCain is fit as a fiddle… Is 71 the new 30?” - Fox News' Rich Lowry
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1552
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Rowand is one of the best defensive center fielder's out there. Cameron is a bit better, and available, but he has the steroid suspension to deal with (50 games I think). Of course, Rowand is guaranteed to miss that many with injuries  so it's a bit of a wash. 5 and 60 is a lot for Rowand, but nothing surprises me with baseball salaries anymore.
Agree with the assessment of his hitting - he's a .280-20-80 guy in a good year, and the steals figure to go down now that he's over 30...
Fukudome... he didn't mash in Japan HR wise and show me what you can do in the show pal. I wouldn't want him for anything other than a bargain. let the Cubs become the Yankees of the NL, looks good on em...
Zito isn't a jerk off, he's a free spirit and an odd duck. He's also a pitcher, the two often go hand in hand, kind of like soccer goalies. A care free, easy spirit should play as well in Frisco as any other market; if he's not fitting in I would respectfully suggest the problem is with the incumbent assholes rather than him. I watched Zito start the final game of the PCL final (and last AAA game probably ever in Vancouver  ) as a kid who had been drafted the previous June; he might have something to say to Lincecum and Cain about handling rocketing to stardom...
As for Baltimore, their latest rebuild was with a bunch of 26-28 never were prospects anyway. Gibbons got on the juice and had a couple good years in his late twenties. Gee, wonder what happened. Tejada has been a bitch forever, getting rid of him was smart.
And look, when you play in a division with the Red Sox and Yankees, and there is no cap, you have no chance. Shame, because Camden is the most beautifal park I've seen in the bigs, and the fans were eager to support the team when they were good - that was a tough ticket. Tell me how allowing the Sox and Yanks to spend 5 trillion on their roster is helping the overall health of the game... |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3006
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Jays sign Eckstein:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2007/12/13/jays_eckstein/
I like Eckstein. However, I worry that he may not be the player who can fill the role of an everyday catcher who can hit and get a throw to second base on a daily basis, which was clearly Ricciardi's biggest need to fill.
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1409
Location: Stuntin' like my daddy
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
Jays sign Eckstein:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2007/12/13/jays_eckstein/
I like Eckstein. However, I worry that he may not be the player who can fill the role of an everyday catcher who can hit and get a throw to second base on a daily basis, which was clearly Ricciardi's biggest need to fill. |
True enough, David Eckstein is certainly not a catcher, but getting our first Prime Minister out of the starting lineup at SS is a plus.
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John McCain is fit as a fiddle… Is 71 the new 30?” - Fox News' Rich Lowry
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3006
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Throw Some E's wrote: |
| Bosc Ulrich II wrote: |
Jays sign Eckstein:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2007/12/13/jays_eckstein/
I like Eckstein. However, I worry that he may not be the player who can fill the role of an everyday catcher who can hit and get a throw to second base on a daily basis, which was clearly Ricciardi's biggest need to fill. |
True enough, David Eckstein is certainly not a catcher, but getting our first Prime Minister out of the starting lineup at SS is a plus. |
Johnny Mac's defense is good enough to keep him in the lineup as a starter if the rest of the lineup could hit. Nobody but Rios could last year. Eckstein can hit and will be the leadoff guy that the Jays have been sorely lacking(and will be the pitch-seeing ying to Wells' first pitch-swinging Yang), and Johnny Mac will bring great defense when Eckstein gets hurt, which will happen.
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1409
Location: Stuntin' like my daddy
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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David Eckstein shouldn't be leading off. The order should be:
2B Hill
1B Overbay
RF Rios
CF Wells
DH Thomas
3B Glaus
LF Lind
C Zaun
SS Lil' Eck
Hill isn't a natural leadoff hitter, but his talents are wasted lower in the order.
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John McCain is fit as a fiddle… Is 71 the new 30?” - Fox News' Rich Lowry
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3006
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Throw Some E's wrote: |
David Eckstein shouldn't be leading off. The order should be:
2B Hill
1B Overbay
RF Rios
CF Wells
DH Thomas
3B Glaus
LF Lind
C Zaun
SS Lil' Eck
Hill isn't a natural leadoff hitter, but his talents are wasted lower in the order. |
Yeah Hill isn't exactly hitting in the ideal spot at #6 or #7, but Eckstein at 9? He's the guy battling for every inch of an at-bat, sees plenty of pitches, and goes all-out all the time. You really think Hill would be better for the leadoff position? I've read that Eckstein was a huge sparkplug for the Cards at the leadoff spot when he was in the lineup.
It's too bad that Johnny Mac and Zaun don't have all of the tools to be everday players for the team that wants to make the playoffs in the AL East, because they both have a burning desire to win and are very competitive.
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the New Cunning Linguist
Like a good neighbor, but not
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1512
Location: I'm here, aren't I?
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Av-merican
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1746
Location: Denver
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hipcheck
Wears red stockings
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 462
Location: The Box
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| razzmatazz wrote: |
As for Baltimore...
And look, when you play in a division with the Red Sox and Yankees, and there is no cap, you have no chance. Shame, because Camden is the most beautifal park I've seen in the bigs, and the fans were eager to support the team when they were good - that was a tough ticket. Tell me how allowing the Sox and Yanks to spend 5 trillion on their roster is helping the overall health of the game... |
Sorry dude, not buying what you're selling
I can remember when no one in the AL East could possibly compete with the Orioles, and their stellar starting pitching
I grew up watching all my favorite players leave the Red Sox, by free agency or by trade due to impending free agency. So now they finally have an owner that will actually keep those players, and also try to improve on the core ( as opposed to the Jacobs method of only having 3 legitimate players at any one time) and I'm supposed to feel guilty?
Puleeze............
The Red Sox play in the smallest capacity park in baseball, and their ticket prices are the highest. Yet, even dating back to the years before they finally won in 2004, they set new season attendance records, year after year. If other teams aren't spending money to improve their teams, then their fans need to take issue with that.
It's not like the Sox are paying exorbitant amounts by baseball terms... with the exception of JD Drew and Julio Lugo, but no one else wanted those two anyways - and they were total busts, having little to do with the Championship. If anything, it is the clubs like KC throwing out ridiculous contracts to the Gil Meche's of the league that are hurting the structure.
When career losers get 11 million/year, every other player takes notice.
Fuck, Matsuzaka at 8 mill/year is a bargain compared to that.
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I'm a Bruins fan - don't try to confuse me with the facts |
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1552
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| They had to pay Gil Meche that much because that's what the market dictated. When Boston and the Yanks sign all the bigshots, they dictate the market. Blaming the Royals for overspending? Tell their fans that and see if you get out of Missouri alive... |
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hipcheck
Wears red stockings
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 462
Location: The Box
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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The market dictated 11 million/year for a losing pitcher?
No, they raised the market value of mediocre players
What bigshots have the Sox signed?
Ortiz was a nobody when they signed him
They have subsequently given him raises, as any team with half a brain would
For Beckett, who sucked his first year, they gave up a pitcher who threw a no-hitter, and a shortstop who won Rookie of the Year
They let Damon go because the price was too high
Unless you're referring to Manny
Remember, they made Manny available like 3 years running, and even waived him one year...and there were no takers
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I'm a Bruins fan - don't try to confuse me with the facts |
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E.L.3000
Big in Japan
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1409
Location: Stuntin' like my daddy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: |
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I disagree with both you, if that's possible.
Every team in baseball is monstrously profitable and most teams can afford the seemingly wacky contracts. There are some teams more profitable than others based on market size (NY teams, LA teams, Bos and Chi-Town), but every team can compete with at least a 70M payroll. Some teams have a big advantage, but every team can at least afford to keep their best homegrown prospects.
Gil Meche is a bad example because the market has increased the price on starting pitchers since then and he actually had a very good first season in KC. Even Jason Marquis is considered a quasi-bargain now.
The Orioles have a meddling owner who signs washed up vets and doesn't put money in scouting - they deserve their fate.
The Twins owner is richer than John Henry and the Steinbrenners combined, but he's a penny-pincher unwilling to keep his best players. He could give Santana the Peavy extension tomorrow if he wanted. Remember he weasled the Minny govt to fund a new ballpark, so he has big-time revenue coming in the near future. He may just choose to pocket it like the terrible Pirates ownership.
In conclusion, the Yanks and Sox will always have bigger payrolls than some of the little guys, but the rest have enough coin to build Championship-calibre teams. The only real advantage those two teams have is they can afford to make mistakes. Ironically, the continued success of the Sox and Yanks is a major revenue stream for every team.
We're seeing the pros and cons of the cap system in other leagues. I don't think anyone in MLB, even the poorer markets, would want to install a cap.
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John McCain is fit as a fiddle… Is 71 the new 30?” - Fox News' Rich Lowry
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razzmatazz
Go Habs Go! Vive le CH!
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1552
Location: Burnaby, B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| I don't accept for a minute that 30 teams could have bid on Payrod. 30 teams can bid on whatever player becomes a free agent in the NHL, that's the difference... |
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Bosc Ulrich II
OTP Resident Historian
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3006
Location: Your own blue line!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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EL, what's the story with the marlins and their 20-mil payroll? If everyone can afford a 70-mil payroll, is he just raking in the dough?
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